Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Instruments > Guitar Gear & Accessories
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 03-27-2013, 06:30 PM   #21
311ZOSOVHJH
G G & A - B A B Y
 
311ZOSOVHJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Offline
Inb4lock
__________________
311ZOSOVHJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 06:30 PM   #22
Josher.K
Registered User
 
Josher.K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Canada
they will replace tube amps in small studios but live use should always be a big tube amp and also large studios that can afford lots of tube amps should have them as well. they are great for budget recording and getting a good tone.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by StraightxXxEdge
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truespin
you can't use a guitar to replace your lack of charm or social skills.

Worked for Malmsteen.
Josher.K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 06:33 PM   #23
Dimarzio45
Finally Divorced Peggy
 
Dimarzio45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Rochester, NY - USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by JagerSlushy
you guys forgot about revalver, huh.


Doesn't seem that much different than Guitar Rig...
Dimarzio45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 06:51 PM   #24
BobDetroit
►Motor City ♪
 
BobDetroit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
I want a Shazam/Kemper /Axe Fx where your amp listens to your favorite song and models the guitar tone with no tweaking.
BobDetroit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 06:53 PM   #25
fly135
Cheap Gear Enthusiast
 
fly135's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Orlando
Quote:
Originally Posted by droyboy
Do you think modelled amp plugins on computer will replace tube and digital amps?
One could claim that a Digital amp is already a modeling plugin on a computer. Not sure how a plugin on a computer could replace an amp, because a computer isn't an amp. You still need an amp and a speaker.
__________________
Tasty Licks - A collection of my music
fly135 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 06:59 PM   #26
tukk04
UG's Neil Young
 
tukk04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimarzio45
I hope not...There most likely will be a large amount of people using plugins and downloadable foot pedal effects via phone/computers. However, it could be a best of both worlds situation too where these plugins could be installed on a tube amp.

The fender cyber amps are basically a mix like that: tube preamp+ss power amp+analog modelling+digital effects. I use a cyber-twin SE for shows and band practice and it is a damn good live amp and gets some great tones. It may not be exactly the same tone as the amps it models but it sounds like what I'd expect that amp would sound like. And that's the point; if it sounds good, use it.

I used to use a SFTR, and while it sounded good, the cyber-twin's TR model sounds like what I expect a good twin is meant to sound like. The only thing about the cyber-twin that I feel takes away from it is that every control on the amp is on every amp model whether the original had it or not, which I feel can be negative when it takes away from the simplicity of certain amps or beneficial when it can add more versatility.

Really, I generally only use the TR and '58 deluxe models for clean and dirt respectively, but it's nice to have say, a voxy type sound there if I want it. Don't get me wrong, when recording or playing at home I'm all about the class A 5-watter and germanium fuzz , but I find modeling amps to be invaluable live tools. While it may not be the real deal, it's good to be able to carry one amp (plus my bass/octave amp, long story ) and have really close fine-tuned (individual EQ, amount of reverb, etc.) approximations of my favorite clean and dirty amps instead of settling for an meh clean and a good dirt or vice versa. Nothing sounds as real as a tube amp on a recording though, there's just some variable there that plugins and modelling don't capture.

There's also the fact that plugins just aren't as inspiring as an amp reacting to your playing but I'll leave that for someone else to add.
__________________
Reverbnation
Facebook

Soundcloud
tukk04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 07:00 PM   #27
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
 
Cathbard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
You'd have to plug it into the PA and rely totally on the foldback monitors to hear yourself - f*** that noise. And good luck playing Parisienne Walkways.
__________________
Gilchrist custom guitar
Yamaha SBG500
Telecaster
Randall RM100
Abbey Harmonic II
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
Cathbard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 07:18 PM   #28
Dimarzio45
Finally Divorced Peggy
 
Dimarzio45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Rochester, NY - USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by tukk04
The fender cyber amps are basically a mix like that: tube preamp+ss power amp+analog modelling+digital effects. I use a cyber-twin SE for shows and band practice and it is a damn good live amp and gets some great tones. It may not be exactly the same tone as the amps it models but it sounds like what I'd expect that amp would sound like. And that's the point; if it sounds good, use it.

I used to use a SFTR, and while it sounded good, the cyber-twin's TR model sounds like what I expect a good twin is meant to sound like. The only thing about the cyber-twin that I feel takes away from it is that every control on the amp is on every amp model whether the original had it or not, which I feel can be negative when it takes away from the simplicity of certain amps or beneficial when it can add more versatility.

Really, I generally only use the TR and '58 deluxe models for clean and dirt respectively, but it's nice to have say, a voxy type sound there if I want it. Don't get me wrong, when recording or playing at home I'm all about the class A 5-watter and germanium fuzz , but I find modeling amps to be invaluable live tools. While it may not be the real deal, it's good to be able to carry one amp (plus my bass/octave amp, long story ) and have really close fine-tuned (individual EQ, amount of reverb, etc.) approximations of my favorite clean and dirty amps instead of settling for an meh clean and a good dirt or vice versa. Nothing sounds as real as a tube amp on a recording though, there's just some variable there that plugins and modelling don't capture.

There's also the fact that plugins just aren't as inspiring as an amp reacting to your playing but I'll leave that for someone else to add.


Yeah, I remember those amps. They're similar to my Vetta II. It's a real pleasure owning such an amp and had proven its value ten times over. My issue with mine is that it tries to emulate pedals (tons of them too), and does a good job. But, it doesn't have some the extra perks that an analogue pedal would have. For example, the Electro Harmonix Deluxe Memory Man emulation involves the delay parts, but no modulation like the real pedal does. So it's like you get half the pedal in the amp.

This experience has proven to me that I'm still gonna have to keep investing in pedals and not look to an amp/multi FX pedal for an ALL-IN-ONE solution. I'm just way to nitty-gritty about my effects and the hands on approach is just the best way to go. If the amp breaks down, I'm up Sh*t Creek and I'll have to look to pedals to find the tone that I had WHILST buying a new amp. Also, it doesn't help my amp is discontinued.

The plus-side to my amp head (and yours too) is that I can get almost any clean channel sound out there. That's all I really need out of it.....annnd some grit/dist. With some pedals in the mix, I can get a ridiculous array of tones.

Last edited by Dimarzio45 : 03-27-2013 at 07:21 PM.
Dimarzio45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 07:25 PM   #29
tukk04
UG's Neil Young
 
tukk04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDetroit
I want a Shazam/Kemper /Axe Fx where your amp listens to your favorite song and models the guitar tone with no tweaking.

Yeah but that's not the pure amp tone it's capturing, that's the amp plus EQ, compressors, the mic's character and all that. It's also only capturing that one amp setting and then applying the character of it's own tonestack and it can't capture how the amp actually responds to pedals, different pickups, dynamics, and specifically volume/gain changes; it can only make that tone louder or quieter, which isn't the same as power amp tubes being pushed. That being said, if it makes for a good, useable tone (which should be the end goal that's great, but profiling is far from perfect.
__________________
Reverbnation
Facebook

Soundcloud
tukk04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 07:31 PM   #30
Robbgnarly
Registered User
 
Robbgnarly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NSB, FL
I hate to break it to you, but computer programs are......digital. your only 15 yrs too late
__________________
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
Robbgnarly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 07:35 PM   #31
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
 
Cathbard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Do none of you guys actually use large volumes from your stack as part of your instrument? Is it all just a one way affair for you?
__________________
Gilchrist custom guitar
Yamaha SBG500
Telecaster
Randall RM100
Abbey Harmonic II
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
Cathbard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 07:44 PM   #32
Dimarzio45
Finally Divorced Peggy
 
Dimarzio45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Rochester, NY - USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
Do none of you guys actually use large volumes from your stack as part of your instrument? Is it all just a one way affair for you?


Not to sound r*tarded, but can you rephrase that? Do you mean, do we depend on large/loud volume for good tone?
Dimarzio45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 07:46 PM   #33
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
 
Cathbard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
No. I mean using the sound pressure to make the strings vibrate.
__________________
Gilchrist custom guitar
Yamaha SBG500
Telecaster
Randall RM100
Abbey Harmonic II
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
Cathbard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 07:47 PM   #34
LightxGrenade
Registered User
 
LightxGrenade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimarzio45
I'm pretty surprised they haven't done it by now...The question is, what names do you think will be involved?

I've been thinking Amplitube and, DARE I SAY, Line 6....or maybe Marshall....

Line 6 does already, I own a Pod HD Pro. No it's not recreating an Engl Fireball or Powerball 100% but if you tweak things enough you can get a very very nice sound. I'm waiting until one of the big boys makes a modeler of their amps like if fender or marshall (i consider the least likely of the group of popular amp brands) did that and not just a solid state amp with some options, I mean like a full amp modeler with a catalog of their amps, then I guarantee you it would change peoples opinions on the subject.
__________________
Gibson LP Studio
Taylor 518E
Washburn WD15SCE acoustic electric
Carvin DC727 (ordered! The wait is driving me nuts!)

Last edited by LightxGrenade : 03-27-2013 at 07:49 PM.
LightxGrenade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 07:53 PM   #35
LightxGrenade
Registered User
 
LightxGrenade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDetroit
I want a Shazam/Kemper /Axe Fx where your amp listens to your favorite song and models the guitar tone with no tweaking.

Oh man how awesome would that be? But I think that would be more magic than technology lol. For example Alexi Laiho of Children of Bodom said that on one particular album, in order to get the sound he recorded the guitar parts 3 times with the amps set to different setting then combined the sound to get that one guitar sound for the album. I don't know of any technology that could hear that, analyze it and figure it out, then reproduce it. Like I said it would be more magic than technology (IMO, Im sure someone will come along in the thread to tell me that not only am I wrong but that the technology already exists lol)
__________________
Gibson LP Studio
Taylor 518E
Washburn WD15SCE acoustic electric
Carvin DC727 (ordered! The wait is driving me nuts!)
LightxGrenade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 08:04 PM   #36
Dimarzio45
Finally Divorced Peggy
 
Dimarzio45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Rochester, NY - USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by LightxGrenade
Line 6 does already, I own a Pod HD Pro. No it's not recreating an Engl Fireball or Powerball 100% but if you tweak things enough you can get a very very nice sound. I'm waiting until one of the big boys makes a modeler of their amps like if fender or marshall (i consider the least likely of the group of popular amp brands) did that and not just a solid state amp with some options, I mean like a full amp modeler with a catalog of their amps, then I guarantee you it would change peoples opinions on the subject.


Yeah I know. I have the Line 6 Vetta II which emulates 75 different amps and 35 speaker sims (which are basically eq tweaks)...plus a shit ton more. I've owned it for about 6 months and still haven't peaked on experimental sounds and settings...craaazy stuff.

It would be a hell of a cool product for guitar gearheads if a company did put out an amp with a full catalogue of their amps. I'm not sure how that would affect sales on their other amps though. Plus pricing....how would you price such a device that basically makes all previous models pointless to purchase? It would be a tough gamble. Unless there's something I'm missing...
Dimarzio45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 08:06 PM   #37
Dimarzio45
Finally Divorced Peggy
 
Dimarzio45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Rochester, NY - USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
No. I mean using the sound pressure to make the strings vibrate.


So basically feedback/sustain?
Dimarzio45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 08:09 PM   #38
tukk04
UG's Neil Young
 
tukk04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by LightxGrenade
Oh man how awesome would that be? But I think that would be more magic than technology lol. For example Alexi Laiho of Children of Bodom said that on one particular album, in order to get the sound he recorded the guitar parts 3 times with the amps set to different setting then combined the sound to get that one guitar sound for the album. I don't know of any technology that could hear that, analyze it and figure it out, then reproduce it. Like I said it would be more magic than technology (IMO, Im sure someone will come along in the thread to tell me that not only am I wrong but that the technology already exists lol)

That's what the kemper profiler claims to do. It'd probably copy the different guitar's variances as a slight echo or something though. You gotta remember that that specific guitar sound is EQed to fit that mix, it's cool at home or when recording but show me how well an EQed and studio compressed sound fits in a mix live. And the EQ on the kemper itself doesn't matter because once you adjust that it is not the same tone then, it is a close approximation same as any other modelling amp.
__________________
Reverbnation
Facebook

Soundcloud
tukk04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 08:11 PM   #39
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
 
Cathbard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimarzio45
So basically feedback/sustain?
Correct.
__________________
Gilchrist custom guitar
Yamaha SBG500
Telecaster
Randall RM100
Abbey Harmonic II
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
Cathbard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 08:12 PM   #40
tukk04
UG's Neil Young
 
tukk04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimarzio45
So basically feedback/sustain?

If that is what he means then it's a no for plugins because feedback is dependent on the reaction happening between an amp's speakers and the guitar.

Edit: Sorry, I thought his original question was about feedback in modelling. But yeah in my case I use intentional feedback on a couple songs.
__________________
Reverbnation
Facebook

Soundcloud

Last edited by tukk04 : 03-27-2013 at 08:16 PM.
tukk04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:27 AM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.