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Old 03-28-2013, 09:45 AM   #81
Cathbard
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We were talking about simulating manipulating feedback as I read it.
As something extra, sure I can see that but tbh, I've got enough shit going on already. Man's gotta dance, shit'd be going off all the time.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:59 AM   #82
667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
We were talking about simulating manipulating feedback as I read it.
As something extra, sure I can see that but tbh, I've got enough shit going on already. Man's gotta dance, shit'd be going off all the time.


I did mention simulating feedback.

You do have a point though... who has time to learn all this stuff? Especially when what you know and love is all you really need.




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Old 03-28-2013, 10:45 AM   #83
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Why simulate feedback? Feedback is there whenever your speakers are playing loudly.
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:52 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Sethis
Why simulate feedback? Feedback is there whenever your speakers are playing loudly.


Why not?
Some use controlled feedback as part of their sound.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:11 AM   #85
Shadowofravenwo
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Originally Posted by ibanez_guru
This i dont really understand...... In Australia, i can buy a brand new MFC101 for $999
Even given the AUD is stronger than the USD, we still pay way over the top prices for everything


Canada as well, especially for stuff MADE in Canada!
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:43 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Cathbard
I use that method for sustain all the time. I'd be lost without it. And no, a feedback effect just isn't the same. By changing the angle between guitar and speakers you can alter the feedback in real time in a very dynamic manner, a pedal/plugin can't do that.


Well....I'm not so sure.

We'll always need amplifiers, because we need volume, but there's no reason (assuming sufficient quality in the model) that you couldn't simply run a JTM-45 model to a clean, powerful solid state amp/stack to get your feedback? (You could even use FR speakers if the model was robust enough.)

I don't think the question is "Will we no longer need amplifiers" because that's ridiculous on the face, but instead "Will we no longer need Tube amps", and the answer is that Yes, at some point in time modeling will be so close that not even the most discerning ear can hear the difference (although there will ALWAYS be those that claim they can).

But that's not today. Given the Kemper, I'd say it's closer than we might think though...
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:09 PM   #87
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They are the work of the devil. What are people like me to do when we can't build valve amps? Just play guitar? Or become programmers? **** that noise.


Somebody's trying to keep the buggy whip factory open, huh? Damn cars - they're the work of the devil!
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:35 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Cathbard
They are the work of the devil. What are people like me to do when we can't build valve amps? Just play guitar? Or become programmers? **** that noise.


Somebody's trying to keep the buggy whip factory open, huh? Damn cars - they're the work of the devil!



That's it man. Now we are getting to the nitty gritty.

Not to worry. Your skills will only become more valuable.
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Old 03-29-2013, 07:56 AM   #89
Shadowofravenwo
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Originally Posted by Cathbard
They are the work of the devil. What are people like me to do when we can't build valve amps? Just play guitar? Or become programmers? **** that noise.


Somebody's trying to keep the buggy whip factory open, huh? Damn cars - they're the work of the devil!

You'll be going "cha ching!" that day. I can't remember what my someone I know paid to have a tube radio restored to working condition. It was insane!
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:08 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by 667
Why not?
Some use controlled feedback as part of their sound.


No I meant you don't need to simulate it. It's there if you turn the speakers up.

Amp sims are pretty realistic nowadays. Give me a kemper and I'll never look back.

Last edited by Sethis : 03-29-2013 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 03-30-2013, 06:09 PM   #91
droyboy
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Thanks for your comments. I am currently working on a research project into the future of guitar amplification and wanted to get a feel for what guitar players think about new technologies. I think there will alwaye be a place for traditional amps but digital alternatives are taking over.
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:47 PM   #92
667
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Originally Posted by Sethis
No I meant you don't need to simulate it. It's there if you turn the speakers up.

Amp sims are pretty realistic nowadays. Give me a kemper and I'll never look back.


The answer is still "why not". You would have to simulate it if you were software only, want feedback at bedroom levels, or where you need tweakable feedback response.

Not needing the real thing is the point.
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:51 PM   #93
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Even if you don't need it, I want it. Feedback at bedroom volumes? Get off my ****ing lawn.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:01 PM   #94
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DSP processors will replace tube amps. preamp, effects, power section, cabinet, mics, room, everything processed in hi-def on external software and bussed over Thunderbolt.
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:28 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by CECamps
Tone is one thing, and digital modeling technology has been there for years. It's not hard to get a kick-ass tone from digital models.

Feel and responsiveness on the other hand, is a far more complex affair. That's what modeling has not yet been able to master. The technology is there, but the engineering of that technology to replicate the complex dynamics of how the player interacts with the amp--and subsequently how the amp interacts with the player--has not been reached.

There is a cyclical synergy involved when playing a good guitar through a good tube amp and speaker cab. The player ends up playing not only the guitar, but essentially the amp and speakers as well. It is a total system type of thing. It can often be unpredictable, which is why we have so much trouble replicating it with digital algorithms.



No mention of a podhd into a dt series amp? Line 6 has came up with the solution to all the short comings of modelling. Not only does it model it changes the analog tube circuitry to match the style of amp so you get the same saturation touch feel and compression of the type of amp. what ever you choose the amp auto switches its anolog circuits
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Old 04-01-2013, 04:25 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by 667
You would have to simulate it if you were software only, want feedback at bedroom levels, or where you need tweakable feedback response.


Sure if you're using headphones it won't happen but if you're playing through monitors at a reasonable volume, not really loud, and you stand close to the speakers it will. Actually there is a plugin that simulates feedback but first of all it pretty much sucks and secondly you don't need it anyway.

Last edited by Sethis : 04-01-2013 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 04-01-2013, 04:56 PM   #97
667
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Originally Posted by Sethis
Sure if you're using headphones it won't happen but if you're playing through monitors at a reasonable volume, not really loud, and you stand close to the speakers it will. Actually there is a plugin that simulates feedback but first of all it pretty much sucks and secondly you don't need it anyway.


You are confusing me. You replied in an earlier post on the point of DSP feedback: "No I meant you don't need to simulate it."

I responded with a couple of examples where you might need it - and you even came up with one yourself..."Sure if you're using headphones".

So in one post you say you don't need to simulate it, and then later on you say you do need to simulate it.

I'm not promoting or detracting. I'm just stating the obvious of what's to come. I don't know what you are trying to argue - besides the fact that your not into it. I'm not into it either - and if you read this thread, you would have realized that. You're counter-points are not only confusing me, they are moot because the tech as you informed is already here. Detracting from it's potential because it sucks now is naive. As was already said, it's in it's infancy and will only will get better. Remember Doom? That first person shooter from way-back? How does that compare to what is available today on the FPS front?
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:53 PM   #98
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It's simple really. You mentioned the need to simulate feedback in amp sims. I replied that you don't need any cranked tube amp or special feedback software to achieve feedback. It just happens whenever a guitar and a speaker interact. Nothing special here, just physics. The point in amp sims is simulating what real amps can do, without that interaction I mentioned nothing can happen.

Last edited by Sethis : 04-01-2013 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:08 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by dlowe102
No mention of a podhd into a dt series amp? Line 6 has came up with the solution to all the short comings of modelling. Not only does it model it changes the analog tube circuitry to match the style of amp so you get the same saturation touch feel and compression of the type of amp. what ever you choose the amp auto switches its anolog circuits


Oh yea ....These arnt the amps your looking for move along move along
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:33 PM   #100
Cathbard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlowe102
No mention of a podhd into a dt series amp? Line 6 has came up with the solution to all the short comings of modelling. Not only does it model it changes the analog tube circuitry to match the style of amp so you get the same saturation touch feel and compression of the type of amp. what ever you choose the amp auto switches its anolog circuits
The same "touch feel"? So it can keep up with an 18W Marshall or a JTM45 for touch sensitivity? That I'd like to see.
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