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Old 04-04-2013, 08:50 AM   #61
ninnipinni93
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If I murder someone, can I call it post birth abortion and get away with it?
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:05 AM   #62
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I don't like any abortion. So having said that, I don't like this one.
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:25 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadsmileyface
doesnt matter, post-birth, pre-birth. they're both fine.


I agree, I support post-birth abortion to the age of 21 or so...
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:23 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catempire


It's stupid to say you're against abortion if you are only opposed to it in some circumstances (as your post suggests).


No I'm against it in all circumstances.

However, I do agree that having access to safe abortions is necessary in a society, because otherwise women will just get unsafe abortions.
A necessary evil in my opinion.
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:38 AM   #65
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ITT: infanticide

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaponized
People will still have abortions even if they are illegal. If you're scared of "botched" abortions, then proper medical facilities provided by an environment that allows women to make that choice should be your goal man. Here is a read about what it was like before:
show

Of course in a perfect world, abortions would be banned cause no one would need/want them. Being against it is really just refusing to understand the situation and choosing beliefs over the health of the population.


People will still rape even if it's illegal.
People will still murder even if it's illegal.
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:58 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by AeroRocker
No I'm against it in all circumstances.

However, I do agree that having access to safe abortions is necessary in a society, because otherwise women will just get unsafe abortions.
A necessary evil in my opinion.

I never understood this argument. So what? It would still be illegal and if a woman got it, she's a criminal. Why should we make it legal just because some women would do it anyway if it were to be illegal? By that logic, we should legalize murder, because murderers are still going to kill people. We should legalize rape, because rapists are going to rape anyway.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:03 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradulator
ITT: infanticide

ITP: Hyperbole
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:04 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormholes
If a doctor botches a single abortion, they should lose their medical license or whatever and never be able to preform another one.

And why is that? There are things that doctors cannot control. People always assume the doctor fucked up, when the fact is that's not always how it works.

This is why there are medical boards, to determine if the doctor did everything in his power and is still competent/acted ethically in a medical sense. Medical boards determine whether you lose your license, btw, which is why I brought that up. But if every person who thought the doctor fucked up could simply take the doctor to court and get him/her to lose their license, that'd be bullshit.

Quote:
I'm pro-choice, but when it comes to decisions I honestly don't think us males should have a legal say in any of this.

And why not?


Although, as TooktheAtrain said, it's a medical ethics question. So, whether having a penis qualifies you or not is irrelevant.
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Last edited by crazysam23_Atax : 04-04-2013 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:06 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradulator
People will still rape even if it's illegal.
People will still murder even if it's illegal.
you cannot be this ******ed
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:06 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willT08
ITP: Hyperbole

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/infanticide

in·fan·ti·cide [in-fan-tuh-sahyd]
noun

1. the act of killing an infant.
2. the practice of killing newborn infants.
3. a person who kills an infant.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:08 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaponized
you cannot be this ******ed

Good point, Tiller.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:10 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradulator
Good point, Tiller.

ok well, rape and murder both hurt someone else against their will. That's bad.
However we still murder in war and in self defense cause sometime's it's "necessary" (rape is always bad tho)

Do you get it now or
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:12 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaponized
you cannot be this ******ed

The net effect of making rape illegal is not that there are ZERO rapes, it's that 1) there are less rapes and 2) rapists are punished for their actions. 100% crime prevention is a good thing to strive for, but it's highly impractical. (That doesn't mean we stop trying to constantly reduce crime to almost zero, though.) People still commit rape, even though it's illegal in pretty much every country across the globe. However, with anti-rape laws, we can exact justice (note that justice =/= vengeance) upon rapists.

Of course, we could substitute rape/rapists for any other crime/criminal, and my argument still applies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaponized
ok well, rape and murder both hurt someone else against their will. That's bad.
However we still murder in war and in self defense cause sometime's it's "necessary" (rape is always bad tho)

Do you get it now or

Modern laws don't make it illegal to kill in warfare. Humanity has not moved beyond warfare, as sad as that is.
Also, self-defense is not defined as murder; because, rather than acting out of malicious intent, someone defending their person/property/family is acting to protect their person/property/family. Intent is important when it comes to determining whether it was a crime.
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Last edited by crazysam23_Atax : 04-04-2013 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:15 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
The net effect of making rape illegal is not that there are ZERO rapes, it's that 1) there are less rapes and 2) rapists are punished for their actions. 100% crime prevention is a good thing to strive for, but it's highly impractical. (That doesn't mean we stop trying to constantly reduce crime to almost zero crime, though.) People still commit rape, even though it's illegal in pretty much every country across the globe. However, with anti-rape laws, we can exact justice (note that justice =/= vengeance) upon rapists.

Of course, we could substitute rape/rapists for any other crime/criminal, and my argument still applies.
if you think ABORTION IS COMPARABLE TO RAPE then just fuck right off, I'm not having it.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:18 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaponized
if you think ABORTION IS COMPARABLE TO RAPE then just fuck right off, I'm not having it.

I don't think it is. However, you contested Brad's point on how making rape illegal does not mean people will not rape. I'm discussing the net effect of rape laws right now, not abortion.

The only way that rape is related to abortion is that many people feel that mothers who are raped should have every right to abortions. I'm rather neutral on that point myself.


Edit:
Also, as others have already pointed out, once the child is born (whether it is born through the process of a botched abortion or through more natural means), the mother loses the right to determine if the child should be here. It's already here. If a botched abortion causes the child to have severe injuries and defects, then it becomes a question of medical ethics. I think we all can agree that it's best left up to medical professionals to determine questions of medical ethics.

Killing a child out of hand after birth is murder. That's why mothers who kill their babies are charged in court, because they maliciously intended to end their child's life (or, more rarely, accidentally caused the death of their child; which is a lower degree crime than murder).
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Last edited by crazysam23_Atax : 04-04-2013 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:18 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaponized
if you think ABORTION IS COMPARABLE TO RAPE then just fuck right off, I'm not having it.

Not rape, murder. If you don't think it is then your ****ed in the head.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:22 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
I don't think it is. However, you contested Brad's point on how making rape illegal does not mean people will not rape.
No I didn't you absolute moron. Jesus Christ. JESUS CHRIST. I KNOW PEOPLE STILL BREAK LAWS. THAT WAS NOT THE POINT OF MY POST AS I NEVER HUFFED PAINT AS A KID.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macashmack
Not rape, murder. If you don't think it is then your ****ed in the head.
Certainly comparable but equivalent hell no. If you think so, your ****ed in the head.
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Last edited by Weaponized : 04-04-2013 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:23 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaponized
ok well, rape and murder both hurt someone else against their will.



Quote:
However we still murder in war and in self defense cause sometime's it's "necessary" (rape is always bad tho)

Do you get it now or

Self defense ain't murder.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:24 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macashmack
I never understood this argument. So what? It would still be illegal and if a woman got it, she's a criminal. Why should we make it legal just because some women would do it anyway if it were to be illegal? By that logic, we should legalize murder, because murderers are still going to kill people. We should legalize rape, because rapists are going to rape anyway.

So it's ok for women to end up dead because they don't want to have a baby?
A woman could become pregnant by accident (birth control failure) and have no desire to have a child nor does she have the means to support a child. She would receive less money from her employer due to maternity pay and may be unable to work as normal if her job is physically demanding (eg. shop worker).
The woman should be forced to carry the child to term, endure 9 months of pregnancy, swollen feet, potential sciatica, joint problems, morning sickness and potentially preventing her from bearing children in the future due to complications in labour, in order to give birth to this unwanted baby. The baby is born unwanted and put into the foster or adoption system which is already over crowded with older children who are in need of homes. All because she cannot get a safe abortion (and an illegal one would carry a great risk of killing her)?

Yeah. That sounds like a great idea.

Not all pregnancies are wanted, and despite attempts to prevent pregnancy accidents do happen. Birth control and abortions enable women to pursue careers and have children when they are ready and able to support them, not because a condom broke and they have no other choice.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:25 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaponized
No I didn't you absolute moron. Jesus Christ. JESUS CHRIST. I KNOW PEOPLE STILL BREAK LAWS. THAT WAS NOT THE POINT OF MY POST AS I NEVER HUFFED PAINT AS A KID

Why are you taking this so personally?...

Calm the fuck down, man.
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