Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Instruments > Electric Guitar
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 04-08-2013, 03:56 PM   #21
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
 
Dave_Mc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
i'm not sure of the wisdom of buying a supercheap guitar to put a bareknuckle into it. that's doing it ass-backwards, if you ask me.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemurflames
I had a Blackstar. I felt like I was lied to by Chappers, that fat ****.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
Blackstar can blow me; dodgey ****ers.


Dave_Mc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 04:32 PM   #22
SteveHOC
Used Register
 
SteveHOC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Mc
i'm not sure of the wisdom of buying a supercheap guitar to put a bareknuckle into it. that's doing it ass-backwards, if you ask me.


Agreed, it's that "false economy" thing. On the other hand, buying used can yield the best of both worlds. Getting a decent used guitar to upgrade has been good to me, especially since he already has the pickups.
__________________
OffsetOffset
SteveHOC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 10:23 AM   #23
thestormunfolds
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHOC
Agreed, it's that "false economy" thing. On the other hand, buying used can yield the best of both worlds. Getting a decent used guitar to upgrade has been good to me, especially since he already has the pickups.


I'm not a believer in buying expensive, ripping out all the hardware and then replacing it all, at the end of the day you've spent 300+ for just wood then! The guitar I actually want is a HH Tele with a maple top. Until I can afford that I have bought the Dean to be used, it's going to be thrown around cars, band practices etc. I've used several high end (800+) guitars and in all honesty I can't see the point in paying that much for a guitar when you will replace the pickups. I've seen techs/luthiers say that wood doesn't even play much part in your sound, probably wrong/bad advice but I imagine hardware to prevail over body wood. As for the neck being cheap, screw it, if you only play on an expensive but can't play on a cheap neck then you're a bad guitarist at the end of the day.

A lot of people rip on cheaper gear (line 6 pods for example) because they do a damn near job of being just as good as someones 800 Fender or whatever.

I have other guitars it's not like I'll just be relying on the Dean. There's also the case of Gibson, I don't remember what model it was but one of the Les Pauls used absolute crap wood yet everyone goes for that model. I was talking about this in a local music shop with the manager.

Some of us have bills to pay too!
thestormunfolds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 10:34 AM   #24
JustRooster
Organ Donor
 
JustRooster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Everyone here pays bills. I'm able to get what I want by being a fruitful spender and budgeting my every day life. I'm a student first. I live off of less than $11,000 a year. Still, with that I'm able to pay rent, feed myself, and get a new guitar off craigslist every few months. It can be done. We're all supporters of the poor guitarist

Now, understand that you're not just paying for the specs on a guitar when you do. You're paying for a neck that feels nice and tapers, you're paying for a build quality. The low end Deans are notorious for shoddy fretwork and a feel you get tired of quickly. That's why most of us are saying what we're saying.

Also, I'm a tech, and I'll clarify what those techs are saying. Wood matters depending on what you play and what amp. High gain through a solid state, you probably won't be able to tell. Clean channel through a Vox or Fender and you can definitely tell. It matters, and the quality can make a difference not just in sound, but in the feel of the overall guitar and the weight.

Also, I have the POD UX2, POD HD500, and POD Farm 2. I also have a Carvin Twin, Fender HRD, and Fender Bassman. None of the PODS come close to my Fenders and Carvin. No where near. That said, I really do like the PODS, they do a great job, but in the end they really are not amp subsitutes.

Also, don't take music shop owners for Gospel. In the end, they are trying to sell you things. I had this issue when I used to work for a guitar shop in Madison on commission. I wanted to recommend the right guitar, but I had to feed myself off selling another. I got a job selling and working as a tech of all places at a music store in a Best Buy slinging Gibson and Taylor acoustics non-commission, and it was the greatest guitar job I ever had. So, you gotta watch people who feed their families based off what they can convince you to buy. Not everyone is like that, some are.

I'd take some advice from this thread. No one is shaming you for your gear. We've all had some gear that we didn't entirely desire at one point or had to pinch some pennies. We're just offering advice because we've been in your shoes. Hopefully this helps, bud.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolmnt
Don't care. I'm not discussing this. Either you post by my rules or you don't post at all.



Last edited by JustRooster : 04-09-2013 at 10:36 AM.
JustRooster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 10:46 AM   #25
thestormunfolds
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustRooster
Everyone here pays bills. I'm able to get what I want by being a fruitful spender and budgeting my every day life. I'm a student first. I live off of less than $11,000 a year. Still, with that I'm able to pay rent, feed myself, and get a new guitar off craigslist every few months. It can be done. We're all supporters of the poor guitarist

Now, understand that you're not just paying for the specs on a guitar when you do. You're paying for a neck that feels nice and tapers, you're paying for a build quality. The low end Deans are notorious for shoddy fretwork and a feel you get tired of quickly. That's why most of us are saying what we're saying.

Also, I'm a tech, and I'll clarify what those techs are saying. Wood matters depending on what you play and what amp. High gain through a solid state, you probably won't be able to tell. Clean channel through a Vox or Fender and you can definitely tell. It matters, and the quality can make a difference not just in sound, but in the feel of the overall guitar and the weight.

Also, I have the POD UX2, POD HD500, and POD Farm 2. I also have a Carvin Twin, Fender HRD, and Fender Bassman. None of the PODS come close to my Fenders and Carvin. No where near. That said, I really do like the PODS, they do a great job, but in the end they really are not amp subsitutes.

Also, don't take music shop owners for Gospel. In the end, they are trying to sell you things. I had this issue when I used to work for a guitar shop in Madison on commission. I wanted to recommend the right guitar, but I had to feed myself off selling another. I got a job selling and working as a tech of all places at a music store in a Best Buy slinging Gibson and Taylor acoustics non-commission, and it was the greatest guitar job I ever had. So, you gotta watch people who feed their families based off what they can convince you to buy. Not everyone is like that, some are.

I'd take some advice from this thread. No one is shaming you for your gear. We've all had some gear that we didn't entirely desire at one point or had to pinch some pennies. We're just offering advice because we've been in your shoes. Hopefully this helps, bud.


I know the people on here are trying to help however before the whole storm starts of: buy this, this is crap, spend 1000 which is usually what you get on here when people ask about gear, I was putting a stop to it. I didn't mean the Fender & Pod in the same context, I meant cheaper guitars can sound like Fenders. (I'll get hate for this I'm sure). But on every forum I've seen someone ask about a Pod they get slagged off. Behringer just bought Kemper... so know everyone will start slagging off a 1500 rack unit which before the name Behringer came into it was a brilliant piece of kit (and still will be regardless).

I'm also a student so the whole second hand thing is ideal, however you do not want to know about the amount of dodgy sellers there is in this area, and I'm particular about damage, dings, scratches fair enough, any damage on the neck and I stay clear. The only cheap guitars I've had where the neck has been bad have been on 2 Ibanez RGA32MOL's, Lindo Dove Electro Acoustic apart from that not really been any negative things. Still have my first guitar a Gretsch Jet (the one pickup entry level one). Never had a proper set up in it's life, been thrown around school, cars, practice spaces etc all 5 or so year ago. Still plays brilliantly.

I'm tempted to maybe put these pickups in my old Jackson (Which has been through one hell of a beating in a metal band) which again was a cheap guitar (200 new) Alder body. Maybe make a comparison. The only reason I'm not using the Jackson is because I was at the young impressionable stage where I thought Flying V's were the be all and end all! How wrong I was!
thestormunfolds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 10:48 AM   #26
thestormunfolds
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
The discussion in the shop was actually down to the quality in one of the Ibanez RGA32MOL's wood. Which he compared with the whole Gibson story. That guitar sounded great for what it was, but the wood was crap (all the glue joints were shoddy) the neck had dead frets, etc
thestormunfolds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:25 PM   #27
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
 
Dave_Mc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
I think you're confusing here with TGP. The vast majority of my guitars were under 500 (and that's new or new old stock). Most of them don't need any upgrades at all. No-one here is saying that you have to spend 1500 to get a half-decent guitar or amp. We're saying that if you add up the cost of your cheap guitar and upgrades, you can get a very good guitar out of the box. A far better guitar than that cheap guitar, even after it's been upgraded.

This is a gross generalisation, but within reason, if you buy a 100 guitar and put 400 worth of upgrades into it, you still have a 100 guitar. Granted, you can rip those new pickups out and put them into another guitar, but that's dependent on the new guitar having the same pickup layout, which it may not have. You're limiting yourself, in other words.

If you buy a 500 guitar that doesn't need upgrades you have a 500 guitar. There are loads of awesome guitars around the 500 mark if you know what you're doing (sometimes even less if you get lucky). I've got UK-made Patrick Eggles and JJs for under 500 which compare favourably to PRSes (actual USA-made PRSes, not PRS SEs). Japanese-made guitars are often good value, and while they're nowhere near as good value as they were because of the strong yen, you can still get lucky with NOS examples at pre-recession prices.

I'd take any of those over a cheap guitar with upgrades.

You're buying a yugo and putting a porsche engine into it and thinking that makes it a porsche (a cynic would say you're not even putting the porsche engine into it, you're putting porsche tyres on it).

yes... the effect of wood can certainly be overstated. But it doesn't have no effect, and even if it does (I don't want to start that "wood doesn't affect tone" thread again, lol), higher build quality and attention to detail certainly count for something.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemurflames
I had a Blackstar. I felt like I was lied to by Chappers, that fat ****.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
Blackstar can blow me; dodgey ****ers.


Dave_Mc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:38 PM   #28
thestormunfolds
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
No guitars ship with a Gibson 490r in the neck and a Bareknuckle Nailbomb in the Bridge, I wasn't going to spend a load on a guitar to rip the pickups out, I have specific wants and mod ideas for my ideal guitar which isn't available on a standard manufacture guitar, in fact if I looked at what I wanted it'd be a custom job. Hence why I haven't just gone out and bought the closest Telecaster that suits my needs, I'll patiently wait until I'm out of uni and in a full time job earning enough to go out and buy exactly what I want.

I wasn't trying to argue or disprove anyone that has commented but I was warning off the bombardment of "That's rubbish, get this" with no reason other than it's a Fender, Gibson or any other decent make.

I agree wood would make a slight difference, more than a Telecaster because the pickups are actually wood mounted rather than the pick guard/bridge. Basically I didn't see the point in spending 300/400 whatever is considered a decent amount (this guitar has set me back with the pickups, electrical upgrades etc, just over 300) when I will inevitably upgrade in the next few years to what I exactly want. Unless the Vendetta blows me away. I appreciate everyones views and comments, I'm not trying to argue etc
thestormunfolds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:39 PM   #29
thestormunfolds
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Also you buy a 500 guitar and immediately it's worth 300. Seems that way in the UK at least whereas pickups hold their value, as well as other hardware
thestormunfolds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:43 PM   #30
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
 
Dave_Mc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestormunfolds
No guitars ship with a Gibson 490r in the neck and a Bareknuckle Nailbomb in the Bridge, I wasn't going to spend a load on a guitar to rip the pickups out, I have specific wants and mod ideas for my ideal guitar which isn't available on a standard manufacture guitar, in fact if I looked at what I wanted it'd be a custom job. Hence why I haven't just gone out and bought the closest Telecaster that suits my needs, I'll patiently wait until I'm out of uni and in a full time job earning enough to go out and buy exactly what I want.

I wasn't trying to argue or disprove anyone that has commented but I was warning off the bombardment of "That's rubbish, get this" with no reason other than it's a Fender, Gibson or any other decent make.

I agree wood would make a slight difference, more than a Telecaster because the pickups are actually wood mounted rather than the pick guard/bridge. Basically I didn't see the point in spending 300/400 whatever is considered a decent amount (this guitar has set me back with the pickups, electrical upgrades etc, just over 300) when I will inevitably upgrade in the next few years to what I exactly want. Unless the Vendetta blows me away. I appreciate everyones views and comments, I'm not trying to argue etc


fair enough, it's your money and your call

Quote:
Originally Posted by thestormunfolds
Also you buy a 500 guitar and immediately it's worth 300.


yeah that's true
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemurflames
I had a Blackstar. I felt like I was lied to by Chappers, that fat ****.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
Blackstar can blow me; dodgey ****ers.


Dave_Mc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:59 PM   #31
SteveHOC
Used Register
 
SteveHOC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
No one is knocking the lesser expensive guitars, I happen to own and love my Squier Jazzmaster, which has undergone a few upgrades in its short time with me. What I am suggesting is that cheap guitars often require much more than a few initial upgrades to stay playable, at least in the long run. If you're a gigging musician, this is something you may already understand. And sure, there are some downsides to buying used, but it's always about putting hands on the guitar to make sure it's up to expectation (which clearly didn't happen in the case of this thread).

Buy whatever suits you best, of course, we're simply offering other ideas with the interest of longevity in your instrument. If that's of no concern, go for whatever cheap guitar looks best to you. Putting a stop to opinions on a thread you generated is kind of ridiculous if you ask me, it is a forum after all, where opinions are what drives the conversation.

I also want to comment that not being able to play well on a cheap neck doesn't make you a bad guitarist. If you have a skill suited best for necks that happen to be on the more expensive end, then that's what you get. In the end we all have ideas on what works best for us, the key here is to have an open mind to what other players may suggest.
__________________
OffsetOffset
SteveHOC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:08 PM   #32
thestormunfolds
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHOC
No one is knocking the lesser expensive guitars, I happen to own and love my Squier Jazzmaster, which has undergone a few upgrades in its short time with me. What I am suggesting is that cheap guitars often require much more than a few initial upgrades to stay playable, at least in the long run. If you're a gigging musician, this is something you may already understand. And sure, there are some downsides to buying used, but it's always about putting hands on the guitar to make sure it's up to expectation (which clearly didn't happen in the case of this thread).

Buy whatever suits you best, of course, we're simply offering other ideas with the interest of longevity in your instrument. If that's of no concern, go for whatever cheap guitar looks best to you. Putting a stop to opinions on a thread you generated is kind of ridiculous if you ask me, it is a forum after all, where opinions are what drives the conversation.

I also want to comment that not being able to play well on a cheap neck doesn't make you a bad guitarist. If you have a skill suited best for necks that happen to be on the more expensive end, then that's what you get. In the end we all have ideas on what works best for us, the key here is to have an open mind to what other players may suggest.



I wasn't putting a stop to opinions, I was stopping the unwarranted that is useless because it's not a Gibson type opinions that you get on every thread on here! I have played the instrument, not the exact one no but I have played one before. If my 200 Jackson lasted gigging and genuinely not being looked after at all; never oiled the neck, never been setup professionally etc then I'm pretty sure that now I look after them properly all will be fine.

I believe our opinions on a good guitarist differs, in my opinion a good guitarist should be able to play on any guitar regardless of if it's a 30 strat copy or a 2000 les paul. I know most people start off with cheap strat copies so everyone has experience of them. I'd be 90% sure that every guitarist has played a cheap strat copy if I'm being honest
thestormunfolds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:20 PM   #33
SteveHOC
Used Register
 
SteveHOC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestormunfolds
I wasn't putting a stop to opinions, I was stopping the unwarranted that is useless because it's not a Gibson type opinions that you get on every thread on here! I have played the instrument, not the exact one no but I have played one before. If my 200 Jackson lasted gigging and genuinely not being looked after at all; never oiled the neck, never been setup professionally etc then I'm pretty sure that now I look after them properly all will be fine.

I believe our opinions on a good guitarist differs, in my opinion a good guitarist should be able to play on any guitar regardless of if it's a 30 strat copy or a 2000 les paul. I know most people start off with cheap strat copies so everyone has experience of them. I'd be 90% sure that every guitarist has played a cheap strat copy if I'm being honest


Where did anyone say anything about buying something like a Gibson on this thread? You're being defensive about something that didn't happen and making generalizations about the people who comment here, neither of which will get you very far.

Like I said, I'm not opposed to cheaper guitars, I was a student less than six months ago and know how it is to budget that way.

It's preference, man. I doubt very much that I would play well on a cheap Strat copy, though I spent six years as a touring/gigging musician. Get your Dean, if it works for you then I'm glad.
__________________
OffsetOffset
SteveHOC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:45 PM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.