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Old 04-10-2013, 09:31 PM   #21
Tom 1.0
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For under 50k?

Pre CBS Fender and converted 50s Les Pauls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by engage757
they are asking that money, but no one is buying really. :/

I do agree though. BMs are NOT going to be worth stupid money in ten years in my opinion. J. Customs on the other hand, special Ibbys will. Solid market and a good following. Ibby isn't disappearing anytime soon.


A few move for that money and thats all it takes, its like classic cars, only one 911 Turbo needs to sell for £350 and then they are all that money.

Give it 10 years and Doug will have built well over 500 of the things and the Djent crowd will have moved on and they will be sensible money again. I do lament the chance to buy a load about 8 years ago for not alot of money though even though I am not a fan, if I had know that Djent was coming I would have had a few locked away.

Ibby is a safe bet yeah, but I dont see them being worth proper money, they are serious cash new. Though I have seen a few go for around 6-7k I dont think thats really the norm?
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:31 PM   #22
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Again, I am talking investment grade today, not 20 years from now.

PRS is too modern. I am not looking to discover the next big collector. I am looking for established vintage. PRS, I'd buy used just to play it. Some guy spent $3000 on it, and you can buy it for $1500. Great deal on a nice playing guitar. That's cool, but not exactly what I'm looking for.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingSomethin
Rob, correct, it's hard to forecast what will be collectible in the future. Are there better deals to be had in the $15k to $25k market? More established iconic standards that are not going away anytime soon?

What is the single best investment segment under $50k ?

It is really difficult to say.

I do know that PRS guitars built 1993ish and earlier are getting harder to find and therefore are getting more expensive.

If you really can throw $50,000 down on a musical investment, buy a Dumble amp. They sell for $40,000-$100,000+ but are extremely rare. Only something like 300have been made and each one is numbered.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:36 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingSomethin
Again, I am talking investment grade today, not 20 years from now.

PRS is too modern. I am not looking to discover the next big collector. I am looking for established vintage. PRS, I'd buy used just to play it. Some guy spent $3000 on it, and you can buy it for $1500. Great deal on a nice playing guitar. That's cool, but not exactly what I'm looking for.



Thats not how it works.

Buy up some pre 93 Braz board PRS and wait until they stop using Brazilian rosewood, thats your safest short term investment IMO
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:37 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom 1.0
I think the only issue with the "investment" market now is there are about 10-20 guitars specifically that will only ever continue to appreciate in the collectors market ( note collectors arent always players ) and they are now priced insanely high so you need to pay alot of money to get in with that crowd.
.


That's exactly what I am talking about. Can you list the 10-20? If it takes $50k to get into that top 10-20, then I'm down. I have the money to play with the big dogs, provided it was a monster value with almost no downside (estate sale, etc), but wanted to start small, b/c I have no idea what I am doing.

I am not looking to discover tomorrow's winner. I want to collect the "Bordeaux" of guitars today (and gig the crap out of it while I own it) But, I prefer to research deeply before I bite. When I buy, I know I have captured value. I want iconic and recognizable. Dumble amp is too niche.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:43 PM   #26
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:43 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom 1.0
For under 50k? Pre CBS Fender and converted 50s Les Pauls.


Quote:
Originally Posted by engage757
under 50k? DAMN. 50's all original Fender stratocaster. No if, ands, or buts. Can be had for under 15k easily. I know where some are online right now actually.



It looks like I will start researching Pre CBS Fender (before 1966) and converted 50s Les Pauls. I am comfortable starting in the $15k range, if that gets me into the "top 20" vintage brands. Engage, can you post the links to the ones for sale?
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:48 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingSomethin
It looks like I will start researching Pre CBS Fender and converted 50s Les Pauls. I am comfortable starting in the $15k range, if that gets me into the "top 20" vintage brands. Engage, can you post the links to the ones for sale?



yeah,

give me a minute to find them
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:53 PM   #29
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:54 PM   #30
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:54 PM   #31
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I collect guitars, but not from an investment angle. I also collect a variety of other things, and have a lot of appraisers on my cellphone. Collecting guitars is like collecting anything else:

1) Make sure you authenticate your purchase- misidentified items and intentional fakes abound.

2) Be prepared to wait for a while- just because something is collectible doesn't mean you can find a buyer quickly, even in the Internet age.

3) Be prepared to eat your investment- collecting anything is at least in part driven by irrationality, so that there is always going to be the risk of a bursting bubble. Look at gold, for instance: there is no reason it should be valued higher than platinum, and yet...
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:59 PM   #32
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Look at Dumble amps if you can find one on ebay

There is one at www.maverick-music.com but they want $99,500 for it
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:06 PM   #33
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I can't find the 1960 I was thinking of, will keep looking.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:11 PM   #34
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Thanks Engage. Let me know if you find it... If 1960's Strats are had for under $15k, what exactly are the one's going for $200k+? Are they a specific year?

dannyalcatraz, I agree with all 3. I am here asking questions, and planning to do at least a few weeks of hard research. I am also patient, and if it takes a year or two to come across the right deal, that's fine. And this is just play money. If I can tie it up in a guitar, I obviously don't need it. Thanks for the advice. I hope you stay in this thread.

I appreciate everyone's help tonight. Looking forward to learning something, as well.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:01 AM   #35
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If I were to try to do guitars as investments, I wouldn't be looking for the ones that are already known quantities in the collector's market. I would be looking for less expensive guitars that shared certain qualities with those guitars.

(I know you said you weren't interested in going that route, but...)

That usually means: a guitar with a high-quality of manufacture that is a real player's instrument; an instrument of impressive visual aesthetics; a non-signature guitar that is strongly associated with a rising star of has been recently been lauded by an established star.

Because no individual guitar meeting 1+ of those criteria will consume your entire budget, you'll be able to hedge your bets a bit. (At the very least, they'll be more likely to hold their value or will decline in value much more slowly.)

In addition, I would also expand my target list to include acoustics. There are many guys who can make great electric guitars, not as many can deliver a similarly distinctive acoustic. And many who can are long-established masters of the craft.

Read that as synonymous with "old." Old means they're not going to be adding a whole bunch more to their résumés before meeting St. Peter. And for most collectibles, that means an instant price spike.

Additionally, a quality acoustic is far more likely to be using rare woods that may simply disappear from the market...possibly within a decade or so.

#1 on my acoustic target list would be anything I could find by Ervin Somogyi...his current production acoustics start at $20,000, and his custom & standard guitars have been used by:

Shun Komatsubara
Masaaki Kishibe
Maurizio Angeletti
Pat Donohue
Steve Erquiaga
Edward Gerhard
Mark O'Connor
Brother Andrew
Alex de Grassi
Will Ackerman
Greg Gumbel
Steve Hancoff
Daniel Hecht
Maggie Sansone
Alan Tower
Michael Hedges
8th Avenue String Band
The Natives
The California Guitar Trio
Isato Nakagawa
Peta

Last edited by dannyalcatraz : 04-11-2013 at 12:09 AM.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:25 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbgnarly
Look at Dumble amps if you can find one on ebay

There is one at www.maverick-music.com but they want $99,500 for it


+1 dumbles are probably one of the rarest things out there. i have looked around briefly strictly for entertainment, but thats where there is going to be lots of money.

john mayer has got one. along with some two rocks. but i have a feeling if he could he would get another dumble. i dont' know though, and i don't follow him, but .

and also Dumble is going to die at some point. even if it was taken over, the older dumbles would go for a stupid price spike.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:38 AM   #37
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You could also engage in arbitrage: find moderately priced quality guitars and sell them in markets where they are more expensive.

A buddy of mine did this with cars. He once bought a BMW M-series car for $40k in the USA, drove it for a year, and sold it in Germany for $60k.

The reasons for the price differential can be varied: greater demand, high tariffs, untapped market, whatever. The why doesn't matter*, you just need an existing price differential you can take advantage of.





* ...too much- always make sure when engaged in arbitrage that you're not violating any import/export laws.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:25 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engage757
I can't find the 1960 I was thinking of, will keep looking.


have a photo of your collection? i would love to see the jems.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:52 AM   #39
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If you're a fender guy (I'm sorry that's all I really know about) the 70s models run from 2.5-6 then 60s run about 6-10 until the pre cbs which are usually about 20 +
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:27 AM   #40
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Maybe try celebrity owned? obviously the right celebrity.
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