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Old 04-16-2013, 09:10 PM   #21
Robbgnarly
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Wow PCB mounted tube sockets on a $3000+ amp. I am a little disgusted honestly.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:12 PM   #22
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Does Line 6 make custom faceplates or did you have to go aftermarket? That's a sweet look though. Is bogner a nickname or something?
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:15 PM   #23
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More importantly than anything, has the pizza guy got there yet?

I want to hear a review!
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:31 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greeny23
why isnt this closed?!


Shush you. Will a TZF clip make you happy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbgnarly
Wow PCB mounted tube sockets on a $3000+ amp. I am a little disgusted honestly.


They're on Diezels, Camerons, Fryettes, CAAs, etc. There isn't a whole shit ton of options when you want a 3+ channel switcher and want to keep it priced somewhat reasonably. And this thing was ~$2.5k back in the day new. I guarantee you the DeYoungs cost 1/4 of that. And the board is mounted with numerous screws, which you can see on all PCBs, that are spaced every 3-4", which is far closer than they need to be for acceptable stability. The boards are also thick as shit. Both Bogner and Fryette have written quite a few articles on why that's not anywhere near bad practice if you know how to design for it. I can post my old Diezel guts if I can find the pics.

EDIT: All I can find are close ups. Here are some noval sockets.

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/.../DSC_0014-2.jpg

And you can see an octal in addition in this one. The rest are mounted underneath that secondary switching/output board.

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/.../DSC_0007-1.jpg
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:34 PM   #25
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2 Channel amp with dual overdrive/boost switches, 2 master volumes and 2 effects loops



Handwired. Complex high gain amps don't have to be PCB, though to be honest PCB doesn't mean it will be bad or sound worse and makes it easier/more efficient when doing crazy complex versatile amps like the awesome Bogner Ecstacy.

Congrats on your new amp, more pics/review/clips?
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:39 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbazz
2 Channel amp with dual overdrive/boost switches, 2 master volumes and 2 effects loops



Handwired. Complex high gain amps don't have to be PCB, though to be honest PCB doesn't mean it will be bad or sound worse and makes it easier/more efficient when doing crazy complex versatile amps like the awesome Bogner Ecstacy.

Congrats on your new amp, more pics/review/clips?


Once you hit 3 channels, you need digital logic for the switching, and you've gotta be nuts to PTP that. And once you've got that, it's easier to interface everything when it's all mounted to a PCB. 2 channel PTP is no problem, and I'll be building a Diezel variant with a Twin clean channel in the style of Cornford whenever I get the time. Clips will have to come tomorrow. I tore apart my gear room the other day to clean it up and haven't set everything back up yet. Also want to dial it in a bit better first. Still typing up a review.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:47 PM   #27
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Congrats!

Where did you order the g?

My Boners will look classier with the g. Yea, Bogner!

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Old 04-16-2013, 10:05 PM   #28
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So review time. I'll tackle it in stages, starting with global controls/features, and then go channel by channel before evaluating usefulness as a whole.

So first, the power amp is 100W using a quad of EL34s. Has your standard presence control, along with a global master volume that is switched in when you use the effects loop. Also has a 'structure' control, which I believe varies the negative feedback in the power amp. L makes it a bit looser and vintage-y, the T is a tighter, more modern and immediate sound with less sag. It's also got a mute switch so that you can run it direct via the line out without making any noise. Then there's the global variac switch, which lowers the overall voltage the amp runs on by a fairly significant amount. The heat sink on top of the chassis is there so the dropped voltage is dissipated as heat. And then there's the new/old switch, which also varies NFB, as far as I know. Differences are largely the same as the structure control, but it affects the low end a bit less.

The effects loop can be switched in and out of the signal path, and is global. Also has switchable send/return level controls, which can be set to either +4dB or -10dB. Though neither is exact, as the level varies with the position of the channel master controls. So leveling everything out can be a bit tricky, but good settings are easily repeatable. Fairly transparent once you get it set up correctly.

Channel 1 (green) is based on a Fender AB763 preamp, but with a 3 position bright switch and a master volume. Doesn't break up much with PAFs or single coils, but the master is useful for getting a more harmonically rich clean tone at lower volumes. Surprising low end out of it, and it's very balanced. Bright switch can make it get a bit piercing at low gain levels though, and I wouldn't turn them on unless the gain level is between noon and 2 o clock, where they have a decent effect that isn't overbearing. Takes pedals fairly well, save for very bright fuzzes, which it can't smooth out due to the extended high end. Not a huge deal.

Channel 2 (blue) is pretty Marshall-y. A bit gainier than a stock 800, and also quite a bit smoother. Similar to the Cameron CCV I just traded for it, but less ballsy and compressed. Great mid-gain lead sounds, and super dynamic. Has a bright switch, with on position being neutral, one treble boosting, and one treble cutting. Can't find much use for the treble cut position, TBH. Makes it too dark to be useable. Same rules apply as the green channel with the treble boost position, as it can easily get piercing when you're not careful. Also boosts the crunch quite a bit, and that's how I'm using it right now. There's a gain boost switch as well, which is shared with the red channel. With the switch on, it gets fairly gainy and compressed, but retains an open high end. I really like this tone, and it's probably my favorite so far. Tight but fat low end, nice punchy mids and a present treble that isn't harsh. The air switch appears to affect high-high treble frequencies, and doesn't do much to my ears. It's also shared with the red channel.

Channel 3 (red) is really an extension of the blue channel. They share an EQ, but have separate gain and volume controls. The red also has the same bright switch, along with a plexi/high gain switch. Plexi mode is pretty low gain, remaining clean up until about 2 o clock on the gain knob, a huge departure from the high gain mode. In high gain mode, you get tons of gain and sustain, along with a solid low mid boost. Fairly compressed, especially once you kick in the gain boost. Wouldn't quite call it modern sounding, but it's definitely fatter and tighter than the blue channel, and would be suitable for modern metal if it were a bit more aggressive. It's also got less treble than the blue channel, and is smoother as a result. Great lead sound, and I believe Vai's albums in the early/mid 90s were recorded on the red channel of a 100B, and later a 101B before his sig Carvin. I can easily get some of my favorite tones from his 90s albums on this channel with a bit of delay and reverb. It remains pretty damn articulate with the gain turned up though, much like an SLO, which isn't surprising considering this one has similar DeYoung transformers.

Overall, I think it's really useable for me; certainly more so than the CCV I traded for it. The effects loop isn't perfect, but it's more than useable. My only real complaint as of right now is the shared EQ on the red/blue channels, though I'm getting accustomed to it and figuring out how to dial it in so both channels sound great. Build quality is great. I'm using it with a Celestion Creamback loaded Diezel 412, and will be trying it out with a V30 loaded Orange 412 once I swap some speakers around. Bogner recommends the V30 as a complement for the Ecstasy, and I'm curious to see how it responds.
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:38 PM   #29
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Very nice review. Sounds almost like my stock 101B. So, what's the main difference compared to the 20th Ann?

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Old 04-16-2013, 10:45 PM   #30
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It's actually fairly different. The clean channel is way different, with one less gain stage. It's much cleaner and closer to its Fender roots. The blue channel is similar to the 20th anni's, but a bit closer to the modded 800s Reinhold used to do and less compressed with less low mid focus. The red channel is also a bit more vintage than the 20th anni's. You ever played a classic? It's a bit closer to that, but fatter. So somewhere in between those two, but less compressed than either. A bit darker than a classic as well.
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:59 PM   #31
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When you say too dark to be useable (Blue/Ch 2) above, Doomy?

I want to remove the g on mine.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:02 PM   #32
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your full of shit, its a mg
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:03 PM   #33
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No, I mean it gets super dark and loses any high end gain/crunch. Not a whole lot of clipping going on. Maybe if you ran a fuzz into it, it'd be great for doom. Might try that later.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:15 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmolteratx
Once you hit 3 channels, you need digital logic for the switching, and you've gotta be nuts to PTP that. And once you've got that, it's easier to interface everything when it's all mounted to a PCB. 2 channel PTP is no problem, and I'll be building a Diezel variant with a Twin clean channel in the style of Cornford whenever I get the time. Clips will have to come tomorrow. I tore apart my gear room the other day to clean it up and haven't set everything back up yet. Also want to dial it in a bit better first. Still typing up a review.

My Abbey is three channel and it uses a couple of relays. Pfffft, digital logic. The entire telephone exchange system used to run on relays and that was a little bit more complex than a guitar amp.

Actually, take a look inside your Brigand - that's relays too.

HNAD.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:17 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by mmolteratx
No, I mean it gets super dark and loses any high end gain/crunch. Not a whole lot of clipping going on. Maybe if you ran a fuzz into it, it'd be great for doom. Might try that later.

Sounds cool. Make sure to differentiate the fuzzes.

Also, I bet it's killer for Alice in Chains.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:25 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
My Abbey is three channel and it uses a couple of relays. Pfffft, digital logic. The entire telephone exchange system used to run on relays and that was a little bit more complex than a guitar amp.

Actually, take a look inside your Brigand - that's relays too.

HNAD.


Yea, but then you have to press two buttons. The channels are switched via relays in the Ecstasy as well, they're just controlled digitally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ippon
Sounds cool. Make sure to differentiate the fuzzes.

Also, I bet it's killer for Alice in Chains.


Yes, great for AiC. Actually learning a few more riffs from them to record tomorrow. Just tried it through some V30s at low volume, and I might actually like them better than the Creambacks with this amp. Balances out the low mid emphasis a bit. Will have to try them at high volume tomorrow though, as that's usually where I start to hate V30s.

Also, found out what the air switch does. It shifts the range of the treble control on the red/blue channels. Seems to have more effect at low volumes.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:27 PM   #37
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Two buttons? Oh, the horror!!
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:30 PM   #38
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Why did you hashtag 12/100 Matt? This isn't twitter.

Also how was the pizza?
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:30 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmolteratx
So review time. I'll tackle it in stages, starting with global controls/features, and then go channel by channel before evaluating usefulness as a whole.

So first, the power amp is 100W using a quad of EL34s. Has your standard presence control, along with a global master volume that is switched in when you use the effects loop. Also has a 'structure' control, which I believe varies the negative feedback in the power amp. L makes it a bit looser and vintage-y, the T is a tighter, more modern and immediate sound with less sag. It's also got a mute switch so that you can run it direct via the line out without making any noise. Then there's the global variac switch, which lowers the overall voltage the amp runs on by a fairly significant amount. The heat sink on top of the chassis is there so the dropped voltage is dissipated as heat. And then there's the new/old switch, which also varies NFB, as far as I know. Differences are largely the same as the structure control, but it affects the low end a bit less.

The effects loop can be switched in and out of the signal path, and is global. Also has switchable send/return level controls, which can be set to either +4dB or -10dB. Though neither is exact, as the level varies with the position of the channel master controls. So leveling everything out can be a bit tricky, but good settings are easily repeatable. Fairly transparent once you get it set up correctly.

Channel 1 (green) is based on a Fender AB763 preamp, but with a 3 position bright switch and a master volume. Doesn't break up much with PAFs or single coils, but the master is useful for getting a more harmonically rich clean tone at lower volumes. Surprising low end out of it, and it's very balanced. Bright switch can make it get a bit piercing at low gain levels though, and I wouldn't turn them on unless the gain level is between noon and 2 o clock, where they have a decent effect that isn't overbearing. Takes pedals fairly well, save for very bright fuzzes, which it can't smooth out due to the extended high end. Not a huge deal.

Channel 2 (blue) is pretty Marshall-y. A bit gainier than a stock 800, and also quite a bit smoother. Similar to the Cameron CCV I just traded for it, but less ballsy and compressed. Great mid-gain lead sounds, and super dynamic. Has a bright switch, with on position being neutral, one treble boosting, and one treble cutting. Can't find much use for the treble cut position, TBH. Makes it too dark to be useable. Same rules apply as the green channel with the treble boost position, as it can easily get piercing when you're not careful. Also boosts the crunch quite a bit, and that's how I'm using it right now. There's a gain boost switch as well, which is shared with the red channel. With the switch on, it gets fairly gainy and compressed, but retains an open high end. I really like this tone, and it's probably my favorite so far. Tight but fat low end, nice punchy mids and a present treble that isn't harsh. The air switch appears to affect high-high treble frequencies, and doesn't do much to my ears. It's also shared with the red channel.

Channel 3 (red) is really an extension of the blue channel. They share an EQ, but have separate gain and volume controls. The red also has the same bright switch, along with a plexi/high gain switch. Plexi mode is pretty low gain, remaining clean up until about 2 o clock on the gain knob, a huge departure from the high gain mode. In high gain mode, you get tons of gain and sustain, along with a solid low mid boost. Fairly compressed, especially once you kick in the gain boost. Wouldn't quite call it modern sounding, but it's definitely fatter and tighter than the blue channel, and would be suitable for modern metal if it were a bit more aggressive. It's also got less treble than the blue channel, and is smoother as a result. Great lead sound, and I believe Vai's albums in the early/mid 90s were recorded on the red channel of a 100B, and later a 101B before his sig Carvin. I can easily get some of my favorite tones from his 90s albums on this channel with a bit of delay and reverb. It remains pretty damn articulate with the gain turned up though, much like an SLO, which isn't surprising considering this one has similar DeYoung transformers.

Overall, I think it's really useable for me; certainly more so than the CCV I traded for it. The effects loop isn't perfect, but it's more than useable. My only real complaint as of right now is the shared EQ on the red/blue channels, though I'm getting accustomed to it and figuring out how to dial it in so both channels sound great. Build quality is great. I'm using it with a Celestion Creamback loaded Diezel 412, and will be trying it out with a V30 loaded Orange 412 once I swap some speakers around. Bogner recommends the V30 as a complement for the Ecstasy, and I'm curious to see how it responds.


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would a pedalboard make my rc20xl loop station sound better? the playback on this thing sucks with batteries and the power supply.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:34 PM   #40
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Yea, I liked the XTC 101B with V30s. The Twin Jet loves the V30 X T75.

Have you tried the Bogner Fish. Missed one for 1400 because I was tapped out.
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