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Old 04-19-2013, 03:19 AM   #41
FLuX25
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I think i agree with W4RP1G here "This post is full of bias and bullshit" . Everyone has such different opinions on this forum so how on the hell am i supposed to know who to believe. Which is why i said earlier if you could post a link to a sound demo or video of what ever you're recommending that would be a lot more helpful.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:34 AM   #42
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Here's an example of a Vypyr doing some metal tones:



And here's a Blackstar HT5 and HT1:



You wouldn't need an extra speaker if you bought one of these amps because they come in combo versions that have a speaker built in with the amp.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:43 AM   #43
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I really like the sound of both the peavey and blackstar... If i got the blackstar ht-5 combo, do you think that would be loud enough to do small gigs such as bars, clubs and cafes and if I am playing with a drummer who plays very heavy can the amp go loud enough.
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:31 AM   #44
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The HT-5 would be able to keep up with a drummer, but would have to be mic'd up for a gig. You'd need something more powerful if the amp couldn't be mic'd.
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:57 AM   #45
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A 5 watt amp is loud enough, when fully cranked through a 12" speaker, to be heard with a drummer in the room. You'll only barely be heard, though, and you'll be maxing the amp out which is rarely where any amp sounds its best. If you get an extension cab then a 5w amp into two 12" speakers can be just about usable for small gigs if you're a player who never needs to stand out (e.g. you strictly play basic rhythm parts). You'll still have to push the amp but you won't get lost quite as much.

Ideally you want at least 15 watts and two 12" speakers for a small gig. The volume difference between 5w and 15w is basically nothing, but a 15 watter will handle the same volume a little better.

If you're set on playing shows any time soon, you should aim to get a 25w amp or more. These low-power amps are a bit of a false economy, because you'll end up replacing it with a bigger amp after a while anyway. And frankly, despite what marketing suggests, simply turning a louder amp down gets you a better tone than turning a tiny amp up, if you do ever need a lower volume. Bigger amps are (usually, not always) made better than smaller ones. You'll save money and yourself a headache if you just buy something truly gig-worthy and great sounding right off the bat—even if it means you have to wait and save a while—rather than buying something cheap and small now then replacing it further down the road.


As for the pickup thing, thrash isn't a genre that is picky about pickups. When you're pushing the gain and bass that much, nobody is going to notice if you have a pickup with matched 43 AWG coils or one 43 AWG and one 44 AWG coil, or whatever else. My go-to pickup would be the Duncan Distortion because it's your most straight-forward high-output, thick, 'metal' pickup. The DiMarzio Super Distortion adds a little more bass if you end up with a really bright amp and the SD Custom gives more of an early metal feel if you like that sort of thing. All are ceramic with overwound coils, all fit the bill. Any of them will do the job; getting the right amp sorted is more important.
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:18 AM   #46
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damn, I really like the sound of that blackstar but i could get a peavey that would have no trouble with a small gig for a lot less money. One of my freinds uses a line 6 spider III 30 watt and it copes fine with small gigs, how does the blackstar ht-5 combo compare to that when it comes to volume?
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:40 AM   #47
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I'm always going to recommend for the Vypyr when people don't know what metal tone they want("thrash" is too vague of a preference to recommend any 1 amp). It's cheap, damn good, and has many options.

From my own experience, I learned that buying a tube amp isn't always better than buying a modeller, as some people had led me believe. I went out and bought a 6505+ 112 combo because it was so highly recommended for metal. I realized after a few years that the 6505 was not for me, but I didn't really know what i wanted. I ended up selling it and buying a used Vypyr 30, and I haven't missed it once. It wasn't a bad amp, just not the tone I wanted.

And you're not going to learn what you want from youtube videos. And especially not from comparing videos made in different settings by different people.


Oh yeah, I should say that the statement that I've heard many times around here, that your pickups don't matter through a Vypyr, is complete BS. All of my guitars don't sound the same at all, and pickups do make a noticeable difference. But I still recommend that you don't worry about your pickups until you get a better amp.

Last edited by W4RP1G : 04-19-2013 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:56 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFlibble
A 5 watt amp is loud enough, when fully cranked through a 12" speaker, to be heard with a drummer in the room. You'll only barely be heard, though, and you'll be maxing the amp out which is rarely where any amp sounds its best. If you get an extension cab then a 5w amp into two 12" speakers can be just about usable for small gigs if you're a player who never needs to stand out (e.g. you strictly play basic rhythm parts). You'll still have to push the amp but you won't get lost quite as much.


If it can barely be heard, it's not keeping up. Not to mention some drummers think like The Hulk! With a 5 watter cranked you're never going to be able to have a clean sound. I'm sure for some styles, the lower wattage amps will work great, specially stuff that wants some of the sweet power tube breakup. But there's a reason why metal players are using those high wattage heads. It's not for volume, it's for headroom to be able to avoid power tube breakup.

And yeah, if you're going to be mic'd, you can use just about anything.
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:03 AM   #49
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See: the rest of my post.
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:08 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W4RP1G
I'm always going to recommend for the Vypyr when people don't know what metal tone they want("thrash" is too vague of a preference to recommend any 1 amp). It's cheap, damn good, and has many options.

From my own experience, I learned that buying a tube amp isn't always better than buying a modeller, as some people had led me believe. I went out and bought a 6505+ 112 combo because it was so highly recommended for metal. I realized after a few years that the 6505 was not for me, but I didn't really know what i wanted. I ended up selling it and buying a used Vypyr 30, and I haven't missed it once. It wasn't a bad amp, just not the tone I wanted.

And you're not going to learn what you want from youtube videos. And especially not from comparing videos made in different settings by different people.


Oh yeah, I should say that the statement that I've heard many times around here, that your pickups don't matter through a Vypyr, is complete BS. All of my guitars don't sound the same at all, and pickups do make a noticeable difference. But I still recommend that you don't worry about your pickups until you get a better amp.


Yeah i think the vyper is going to be the best way to go. Its incredibly cheap and from what i can tell (not that i have any experience with it) sounds really good.
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:16 AM   #51
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How does the vyper handle really low notes ? like the B on a 7 string
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:26 AM   #52
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Very well. One of the few universal rules of solid state and valve amps is that solid state amps handle lower notes with more clarity and generally a 'tighter' sound. Of course the downside is they handle higher notes with a harsh edge that few people find appealing.

I actually will only use valve amps with 6-strings tuned to Drop C# or higher. For anything lower—7-strings especially—I only use solid state. I've yet to find a valve amp that, with any settings, can sound half as clear whilst still pumping out the same bass thump and power.
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:41 AM   #53
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Ok thanks. I think I'll go for the vyper. I have one question, can anyone tell me how the sound is on the vyper VIP range that also have the bass and acoustic modeling?
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:57 AM   #54
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They're not in shops yet, at least not widely, so it's unlikely anybody has any experience with them beyond listening to the official product demos.

You can get acoustic simulator pedals which will offer you more options, if you want to be able to switch to an acoustic sound easily. Same with bass, though guitar pretending to be bass never sounds very good.
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Old 04-19-2013, 10:30 AM   #55
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Ok, thanks. I was just wondering because on online stores such as Amazon the price isnt really different to the regular vyper amps so if the sound is just as good it seemed worth it.
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:32 PM   #56
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Something to bear in mind as you were asking about doing gigs. A 15w valve amp will be loud enough for gigs and if you get a 20w-30w valve amp you'll never get it to full volume without making your ears bleed BUT a 30w Vypyr will NOT do gigs. A solid state amp like that will start to sound like crap long before you get to maximum volume and if you're in a band situation, you'll find they don't cut through the mix quite as well either. If you're looking at solid state for a gig, you'll need at LEAST 75w as a bare minimum. It's like a said earlier; if you get a 30w Vypyr it will sound fine in your bedroom but you'll soon want/need to change it, partly because your ear will develop and you'll realise the sound isn't as great as a valve amp and partly because you'll soon realise that it just isn't practical for a gig. Even if it was powerful enough to do a gig and still sound reasonable, it still isn't viable for a gig unless you buy the optional foot controller and by the time you've done that, you could have bought a decent valve amp anyway. It's your money but I promise you, if you get the Vypyr you'll soon be wanting out of it and you'll never do a decent gig with it. False economy.
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:37 PM   #57
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I actually will only use valve amps with 6-strings tuned to Drop C# or higher. For anything lower—7-strings especially—I only use solid state. I've yet to find a valve amp that, with any settings, can sound half as clear whilst still pumping out the same bass thump and power.


Just out of curiosity, have you tried any of the systems designed for amplifying basses, or perhaps keyboards?
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:51 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W4RP1G
*Story about selling 6505+ for a Vypyr


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFlibble
Very well. One of the few universal rules of solid state and valve amps is that solid state amps handle lower notes with more clarity and generally a 'tighter' sound. Of course the downside is they handle higher notes with a harsh edge that few people find appealing.

I actually will only use valve amps with 6-strings tuned to Drop C# or higher. For anything lower—7-strings especially—I only use solid state. I've yet to find a valve amp that, with any settings, can sound half as clear whilst still pumping out the same bass thump and power.


Also, since I missed your this whole amp thing in my first post, i thought I'd add some insight.

Both of these posts basically tie in with what I believe. Tubes aren't always better than Solid States. As MrFibble said, solid states seem to handle lower notes a bit more and from what I've witnessed, Tubes are good with anything higher than Drop C/C Standard. I mean, why do you think so many bassist use SS amps as opposed to tubes? Tubes usually won't handle really low notes (like on a 7-string) so well with the downside of the higher pitched not have a "pleasing" sound (most of the time, that is).

And yeah, considering many people have different definitions of what they classify as "Thrash Metal", I think the Peavey Vypyr 30 is a great choice. I actually had the opportunity to play them a bit and they can handle a vast amount of tones that sound great even for a modelling amp.
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:08 PM   #59
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I think a Vyper 75 watt is a going to be the best choice because i do plan on using it for a 7 string guitar as well and i dont want something that can handle the low B string. Also the sound on the peavey from what i can tell is amazing. I would however like to try one out in person before buying anything.
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:10 PM   #60
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Yes, i would definitely recommend doing so. In person is the best way to tell if the amp is for you.
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