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Old 04-21-2013, 03:40 PM   #1
MissingSomethin
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How would you solo over this arpeggio progression A7 G7 A7 C7 D7.

Here is a little arpeggio progression using: A7 G7 A7 C7 D7
Stream: https://soundcloud.com/missingsomet...7-backing-track
Download MP3 here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zbm3hswbge2tvvm/v3656OkGlJ

I thought I would give it a closer look.
Just picking the key of A (since I start with that chord?) I have the following:
A7: 1 5 -7
G7: -7 4 -6
C7: -3 -7 -2
D7: 4 1 -3
http://www.looknohands.com/chordhou...r/index_rb.html

In choosing a lead scale/mode, do I ignore the C7 D7 as a "passing tone" since it's shorter and connects back to the main riff of A G A?
Otherwise, that -6 in the G7, and the -2 in the C7? This would make it -3 -6 -7 for a Phrygian mode (-2 -3 -6 -7)
Before any of this, I tried to just play some lead licks by feel, and then looked up the chosen notes, after the fact.
And these are the notes I gravitated towards naturally, anyway.

Can anyone loop it and post a recording of their own leads over it?
I will do the same. I am curious how different people interpret leads over the same progression.
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:02 PM   #2
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It's in A and I think the 7th note in the chords is just a color note. Minor pentatonic scale would fit it (well, it fits anything ). Yeah, just play notes in A minor scale and chord tones over it. Over the A7 chord you could play the major third of course. And maybe avoid playing B over C7. But yeah, it's just a basic I-bVII-I-bIII-IV progression. And over that most of the notes I would play would be in minor pentatonic.

It's in the key of A. Emphasize the chord tones. Maybe just ignore the 7th note in the chords. Think it as A-G-A-C-D and solo over the progression like you would solo over it without the 7th notes. Listen to the sound and play sounds you hear and not just fingerings you see.
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:36 PM   #3
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The G7, C7 are not in the key of A - the D7 is, though. You could think of it as being in the key of D, but the C7 is not diatonic to D major.

Given that, you could treat each chord as it's own and change with each chord - in other words, play a G major scale over the G7, a D major scale over the D7 and so on. Or, you could just play in the key of D and alter the solo when you hit the C7.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:18 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingSomethin
Here is a little arpeggio progression using: A7 G7 A7 C7 D7
Stream: https://soundcloud.com/missingsomet...7-backing-track
Download MP3 here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zbm3hswbge2tvvm/v3656OkGlJ

I thought I would give it a closer look.
Just picking the key of A (since I start with that chord?) I have the following:
A7: 1 5 -7
G7: -7 4 -6
C7: -3 -7 -2
D7: 4 1 -3
http://www.looknohands.com/chordhou...r/index_rb.html

In choosing a lead scale/mode, do I ignore the C7 D7 as a "passing tone" since it's shorter and connects back to the main riff of A G A?
Otherwise, that -6 in the G7, and the -2 in the C7? This would make it -3 -6 -7 for a Phrygian mode (-2 -3 -6 -7)
Before any of this, I tried to just play some lead licks by feel, and then looked up the chosen notes, after the fact.
And these are the notes I gravitated towards naturally, anyway.

Can anyone loop it and post a recording of their own leads over it?
I will do the same. I am curious how different people interpret leads over the same progression.

Am pentatonic over everything. For G7, learn the sound of a G major triad over the whole neck.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KG6_Steven
The G7, C7 are not in the key of A - the D7 is, though. You could think of it as being in the key of D, but the C7 is not diatonic to D major.

Given that, you could treat each chord as it's own and change with each chord - in other words, play a G major scale over the G7, a D major scale over the D7 and so on. Or, you could just play in the key of D and alter the solo when you hit the C7.

Disagree with all this. It's in the key of A if it resolves to A. And A is the key center here. I wouldn't treat every chord as a new key. As I said, the 7th note is just a color tone. The progression is I-bVII-I-bIII-IV, everything is in the key of A. And the key is not D. It doesn't feel like it resolves to D. Play over it like you would play over A-G-A-C-D (without the 7th notes).
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:43 PM   #6
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What mdc said. The magic of the minor pentatonic, plus pick out anomalies within the individual chords and 'step out' of the pentaonic scale using them against the chords. For example, A- Pentatonic is A C D E G so over the A7 (A C# E G) you might bend a C to C#, over the G7 (G B D F) you might center a melody around B or emphasize the F, over C7 (C E G Bb) play the same melody centered on B, but change the B to a Bb and over D7 (D F# G C) emphasize the F#. The nice thing is that if your tonal center is A, there's a zillion things you can do just using the A- Pentatonic
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:44 PM   #7
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Playing different scales for each of the chords is too advanced for me. I am still at the stage where I am just trying to make the lead sound decent, especially for a slower lead that would be appropriate for this slower backing track. This takes up all of my concentration. If there were a radically different (and longer) progression thrown in, I could maybe just back and forth. But, I can't do it just for a single measure. So, I just need one basic scale to work from.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:47 PM   #8
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I'd like to use more than A minor pentatonic, since I am losing the flavors of the 2 & 6. I have tried to move beyond minor pentatonic soloing for a more developed and mature sound.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingSomethin
This takes up all of my concentration.

That's cuz your ear is underdeveloped. The more developed your ear, the less concentration needed.
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So, I just need one basic scale to work from.

There isn't one.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingSomethin
I have tried to move beyond minor pentatonic soloing for a more developed and mature sound.

Ok. G7 is a non-functioning dominant. know what that means? It means you can use G Lydian dominant scale over it.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingSomethin
I'd like to use more than A minor pentatonic, since I am losing the flavors of the 2 & 6. I have tried to move beyond minor pentatonic soloing for a more developed and mature sound.


Look to the greats from Clapton and his ilk who use pentatonic patterns as a 'skeleton' while using 'flavors' out of diatonic scales and the arpeggios of the chords they play over. Clapton, like his old school american blues heros, could squeeze the tastiest stuff out of just a handful of notes. Good luck
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Old 04-21-2013, 06:10 PM   #12
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well I'd probably start by playing A7 G7 A7 C7 D7 arpeggios.

Never too early to start focusing on harmonic relationships. Don't get in the habit of doing "in key" playing over actual chord progressions, especially if they include/imply key changes.
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggaraMarine
Disagree with all this. It's in the key of A if it resolves to A. And A is the key center here. I wouldn't treat every chord as a new key. As I said, the 7th note is just a color tone. The progression is I-bVII-I-bIII-IV, everything is in the key of A. And the key is not D. It doesn't feel like it resolves to D. Play over it like you would play over A-G-A-C-D (without the 7th notes).



Just because something resolves to something else doesn't mean that's in that key. From a theory standpoint, those notes, or chords (G and C), are not diatonic to the key of A major, which was my point. I hate to talk about scales, but as long as you play chords that are diatonic to a given key, that scale will work over any of them. Play something that's non-diatonic to that major key and now you have to start thinking about which notes in your solo will cause dissonance and clash - because you're no longer in the major key. Some notes will work, as they may be common to the two keys, but not all of them will resolve.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:26 PM   #14
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Not really a dominant seventh barber shop harmony as I expected from reading the title since the major 3rds are missing [root, 5th, b7th].

With a little practice it could end up having an exotic flair to it if you use notes from

A Phrygian [A-Bb-C-D-E-F-G-A]

OR

A Jewish / Spanish Phrygian [A-Bb-C#-D-E-F-G-A] ...

3rd and 6ths + tremolo - i m i m i m...

Last edited by ha_asgag : 04-22-2013 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KG6_Steven
Just because something resolves to something else doesn't mean that's in that key. From a theory standpoint, those notes, or chords (G and C), are not diatonic to the key of A major, which was my point.


Yes, those notes are not diatonic to that key. So what? It is still in that key. The presence of non-diatonic notes does not mean you've changed key.

You are 100% wrong when you say that resolution != key. The key is DEFINED by the resolution.

(Furthermore, D7 isn't diatonic to A major, either. Dmaj7 is.)

There's no need to switch scales because there are non-diatonic notes. Yes, you have to be careful to avoid clashes ... but get what, you have to do that with diatonic notes, too! (eg, play a D note over an A major chord ... all diatonic to A major, still creates a clash between the D and the C# in the chord).
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KG6_Steven
Just because something resolves to something else doesn't mean that's in that key.


Incorrect. The chord of resolution defines the key.
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:34 AM   #17
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The fact that all these are dominant chords changes things. You can't just say "solo in A major" doesn't work like that.

SomethingMissin, i posted this on TGP as well, but i'll post it here in case anyone else wants ideas. I whipped this up really quick. various ideas. chord tones, key center approach, melodic minor, pentatonic, etc. The last section is strictly chord tones, to show you that you should start learning your arpeggios/chord tones asap.

Nothing really amazing.

https://www.box.com/s/fgjckzvm4o2kd8rx0xnu
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:59 PM   #18
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Talking

rich2k4's 16 bar demo improv sounded bluesy... here's a rough tab of the audio (progression and the sample)
Attached Images
 

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Old 04-22-2013, 02:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ha_asgag
rich2k4's 16 bar demo improv sounded bluesy... here's a rough tab of the audio (progression and the sample)


Second half was basically blues. Then the last time around was arpeggios. I never had my improv's tabbed out before. Pretty cool

Notice how even when I do the quicker scaler runs, I always make it a point to resolve to a chord tone. Thats where arpeggios come in again.

Measure 10 is notes taken from Ab melodic minor

It is my opinion that if you want to improvise at a high level, but you don't know your chord tones and arpeggios, then forget about it.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggaraMarine
It's in A and I think the 7th note in the chords is just a color note. Minor pentatonic scale would fit it (well, it fits anything ). Yeah, just play notes in A minor scale and chord tones over it. Over the A7 chord you could play the major third of course. And maybe avoid playing B over C7. But yeah, it's just a basic I-bVII-I-bIII-IV progression. And over that most of the notes I would play would be in minor pentatonic.

It's in the key of A. Emphasize the chord tones. Maybe just ignore the 7th note in the chords. Think it as A-G-A-C-D and solo over the progression like you would solo over it without the 7th notes. Listen to the sound and play sounds you hear and not just fingerings you see.
I'm gonna side with the key of D crowd on this one. To fix this into the key of A, you need to find and E chord somewhere, or the whole thing has no 5th.

The 7ths are to add color though. Listen to the Rolling Stones "Dead Flowers". It's a I, IV, V mock country ditty in D major. But, Keith Richards sees fit to end it on a really jarring D7 open chord. It's almost an "ick", until you think, "meh, why the hell not".

But really,
Quote:
Think it as A-G-A-C-D
you're trying to say that's not D...? There's just no place to stuff in a G# anywhere.

Last edited by Captaincranky : 04-22-2013 at 06:03 PM.
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