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Old 04-22-2013, 06:04 PM   #21
mdc
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Run the A major scale over the track, then run the D major scale over the track. Which one sounds better?
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:19 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdc
Run the A major scale over the track, then run the D major scale over the track. Which one sounds better?
Is that a trick question? Cause the G# in the A major scale would clash with almost every chord in the progression.

I'd argue that a modal scale of D would do the trick. No, I'm not trying to start an argument about modes, no I'm not trying to call it modal. Truth be told, I'd get rid of the D major chord altogether, and sub it with Bm7. But then, I never was much of a blues guy.

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Old 04-22-2013, 06:34 PM   #23
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Actually this is a better one


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Old 04-22-2013, 06:38 PM   #24
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What is that 2 posts to my own video? I do declare, that may be a personal best....

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Old 04-22-2013, 06:41 PM   #25
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Yeah, you sure deserve it!
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:54 PM   #26
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Have fun with that G#. Or are we calling this scale "A major with a G natural"?

Sorry, b7th. Don't wanna abandon the tech jargon.

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Old 04-22-2013, 07:14 PM   #27
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The truth is it really doesn't matter what you play as long as the downbeats of chord changes have chord tones, you end your phrases on "good" notes, and that you have a proper, measurable rhythm.
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:57 PM   #28
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Anyone want to post a solo attempt over this progression??
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:12 PM   #29
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:15 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captaincranky
Have fun with that G#. Or are we calling this scale "A major with a G natural"?

Sorry, b7th. Don't wanna abandon the tech jargon.


Here is the thing, Music isn't frozen in time, it's constantly moving. Sure the G# will clash if you were to freeze the A7 chord and play G# and hold it there. No one ever does that. It's all about the melodies you create. You can play G# over A7, in fact Charlie Parker did it all the time. It's a matter of learning how each note reacts, and be able to control them.
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:05 AM   #31
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I'd see it as a I IV V and bVII in A, the rest is just chord tone awareness. I don't see what's so hard about this one, really.

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Old 04-23-2013, 02:15 AM   #32
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I'd see it as a I IV V and bVII in A, the rest is just chord tone awareness. I don't see what's so hard about this one, really.
Because when you flat the 7th of A major you get a D major scale from 5th to 5th. Then there's the whole, "every chord has to be a b7", which kind of shits on theory in general.

Besides, where the heck do you see an E chord that would be a "V" of A major?

I think if you sum those chord tones, including the b7ths, you'll find you come pretty close to using the entire chromatic scale anyway. Well, except for the G# in the actual key of A major.

All of that notwithstanding, this is UG, and just because something doesn't have to be hard, doesn't mean it isn't our manifest destiny to make it so....

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Old 04-23-2013, 03:15 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captaincranky
Because when you flat the 7th of A major you get a D major scale from 5th to 5th. Then there's the whole, "every chord has to be a b7", which kind of shits on theory in general.

Besides, where the heck do you see an E chord that would be a "V" of A major?

I think if you sum those chord tones, including the b7ths, you'll find you come pretty close to using the entire chromatic scale anyway. Well, except for the G# in the actual key of A major.

All of that notwithstanding, this is UG, and just because something doesn't have to be hard, doesn't mean it isn't our manifest destiny to make it so....

I just can't hear it resolving to D. Even though it has an A7, all the other chords are also 7th chords. So I would just ignore all the 7th notes (when looking at the function of the chords), they are just "color notes" and kind of don't change the function of the chord. I mean, if the progression was just A-G-A-C-D, what would the key be? Don't just look at it on paper, listen to it. Also the D chord is played for so short time that I wouldn't say it's the key.

Basic rock progression in A could be A-C-D. Or A-C-G or something. It doesn't need to have a G# to be in A major (or minor). Many rock songs have progressions without a V chord and they have lots of borrowed chords from the parallel minor. For example "Highway to Hell". It's in A major but the chords are A, G and D. (There's an E major just before the chorus though.)

Also, don't look at scales when you are finding out the key. Some chords fit some scale better but it doesn't mean it's the key. You need to listen to what the key center is. And over this progression you could just play A minor pentatonic and it would sound "rocking".
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:52 AM   #34
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You can't just ignore the 7ths though. The fact that the 7ths are there is a big deal. If you had higher extensions such as 13ths and 9ths, those can be ignored and just thought of as a regular 7th. But as soon as you change a normal triadic chord into a 7th, you're in a different game. If the chords are all diatonic, then changing them to 7ths might not be a big deal, but for a unorthodox progression like this, it makes a big difference.

Normal A major would be A C# E

G major = G B D

C = C E G

D = D F# A

if you want to go all triads, the group of notes you have is.

A B C C# D E F# G

All but one of the chords would work under D major. Only problem would be the C chord, but then all you have to do is change your C#'s into C's, and essentially at that point, you are playing in G major.

Progression doesn't have to resolve to D in order for you to improvise using the notes of D major.

When it is said to solo using D major, it doesn't mean "emphasize D major" it means, use the notes of D major, but also use your knowledge of chord tones.

This progression has no key, If it were all triad chords, you would say it is mostly in D major and switches to G major (although since the C is so short, even that's negligible) If you really want to be specific you can say A Mixolydian (but that's bullshit because this isn't modal and A mixolydian is the same notes as D major anyways so it is redundant)

Anyways this is all for a pure triadic approach. Since the 7ths are there, completely different ballgame.
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:00 AM   #35
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How about if we say technically it's in D, but emotionally it's in A, and call it a draw?

A compromise would be D mixolydian.

With all that said, it doesn't really fall into a major key niche. It's a lot more bluesy than all that.

I would say playing Am pent over G7 provides some interesting permutations, not all of which are suitable. There's a G6, a Gsus4, A Gadd9. These are pretty durn folky, so I'd probably at least try Gm pent over the G7.
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:17 AM   #36
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Here are other similar progressions containing dominant 7th chords:
(in the Key of C)

C-D7-G7-C
C-F-D7-G7-C
C-A7-D7-G7-C
C-E7-A7-D7-G7-C
C-B7-E7-A7-D7-G7-C

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Old 04-23-2013, 07:01 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ha_asgag
Here are other similar progressions containing dominant 7th chords:
(in the Key of C)

C-D7-G7-C
C-F-D7-G7-C
C-A7-D7-G7-C
C-E7-A7-D7-G7-C
C-B7-E7-A7-D7-G7-C

The case here is a bit different because none of the "dom7" chords really function as a dominant chord.

But that C-B7-E7-A7-D7-G7-C thing is just I-V/V/V/V/V-I. They are all secondary dominants.

But when the progression is A7-G7-A7-C7-D7, there are no secondary dominants.

IMO the progression sounds pretty "rocking". It sounds very similar to A-G-A-C-D which would be a basic rock song chord progression. It could be used in an AC/DC song for example. Using bVII and bIII chords is very usual. What I meant by "ignore the 7" is that it doesn't sound really that different without the 7th note.

Also @ Captaincranky: The key you are in is about the resolution. Another (and IMO better) example of an AC/DC song is "It's a Long Way to the Top". There are no V chords but it's in A major. The progression in the chorus (and guitar solo) is a basic bVII-IV-I (G-D-A). If you just look it on paper, it could also be in D major but it's not. It clearly resolves to A. The key is not all about the chords, it's also about in which order the chords are. Also rhythm has a lot to do with the key (for example if you spend more time on D than on A, it might feel like it's in D - not always though). Same chords function differently in a different context.

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Old 04-23-2013, 09:15 AM   #38
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I would just solo A minor over it. Otherwise just take the chord tones and add embellishments to them.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:22 AM   #39
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You can pretty much play any note in this progression and it'll work. But if you don't know what to do stick to chord tones 1,3,5,b7, if you want colour you can play b9, #9, #11, b13, 13. Try not play the natural 11th as it will either clash with the 3rd, or imply a 7sus4 sounding chord and you'll lose the function. Although I think in this circumstance it doesn't really matter. This progression is similar to cyclic progression in 4ths used in Jazz usually most to land in specifics keys and in turn arounds.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:50 AM   #40
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The only issue here is G7. Am pent over everything but.

Like I said before, G triad, G7 or Em7 arps (brings out 13th)

Edit: the bottom line here, TS, is that you NEED to learn your arpeggios.

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