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Old 04-25-2013, 09:54 PM   #21
crazysam23_Atax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphogenesis26
I just listened to the EP. I'll be honest, I have a hard time calling it Death Metal.

It sounds like they took Post-Rock atmosphere and added squeaky clean shred solos, chuggy riffs, blast beats, and some growls to it. It's not bad or anything, I just don't think adding the Death Metal tag to it has much weight.

Ok, but even the band themselves agrees they're not pure Death Metal. There's enough Death Metal there though that we couldn't probably call it Deathcore though.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:13 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
Ok, but even the band themselves agrees they're not pure Death Metal. There's enough Death Metal there though that we couldn't probably call it Deathcore though.


I'm still unsure what qualifies for Deathcore. I don't think there has ever been a period of consistent bands in that "subgenre" that weren't horrible, so a lot of stuff could be Deathcore without actually being Deathcore.

I would just call this band Extreme Metal and be done with it.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:42 PM   #23
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To be honest, I actually don't disagree with ol' NFA up there. He's right, it's not REALLY death metal, it's just closer to death metal, by proxy of the deathcore origins and "prog" leanings. I still maintain that aesthetically, it's not deathcore anymore, as all of the heavy riff styles are basically modern interpretations of 90s/early 2000s death metal (Necrophagist may suck, but they're still death metal, right?) mixed in with "progressive" metal influences.

To be honest, whatever works for you guys, label it that. All I care about is how amazing this EP is. Apparently they have a full length in the same vein coming out later this year called "The Eternal Return".
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:43 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Morphogenesis26
I'm still unsure what qualifies for Deathcore. I don't think there has ever been a period of consistent bands in that "subgenre" that weren't horrible, so a lot of stuff could be Deathcore without actually being Deathcore.

I would just call this band Extreme Metal and be done with it.

lol, that works.
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Old 04-26-2013, 04:48 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphogenesis26
I want to hear your reasons for saying that all Deathcore is flawed.

Ask Steve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magero
it's not REALLY death metal, it's just closer to death metal, by proxy of the deathcore origins and "prog" leanings. ... the heavy riff styles are basically modern interpretations of 90s/early 2000s death metal ... mixed in with "progressive" metal influences.

I don't think this actually makes it closer to Death Metal. Death Metal effectively died in the early 90's, with only a few notable exceptions. There were some bands that began experimenting with different approaches to the genre (e.g. Supuration, Gorguts, Martyr) and the artistically vacuous Slam movement. Most of what is considered "Progressive Death Metal," from which this band draws heavy influence, deviates substantially from Death Metal both in riff craft and structure. I wouldn't even really consider Necrophagist to be Death Metal. So the fact that this band is moving in a direction that is removed from Death Metal doesn't mean anything in and of itself, but taking the music as is, it clearly is closely related to Deathcore (as I previously stated).

I would agree that whatever you want to call them doesn't fundamentally alter the nature of their music, so this aspect of the discussion is largely meaningless.

Anyway, it's nice to see some agreement.
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Old 04-26-2013, 05:22 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by NotFromANUS
Ask Steve.


Most of the people who have posted in this thread have had many a discussion with Steve.

His opinions are rather flawed in my eyes and in most other peoples; to those that do not agree with him, he is considered narrow minded (as they do not allow for any form of musical growth within the metal genre outside of pre-defined concepts); not a musical savant.
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:10 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ChemicalFire
Most of the people who have posted in this thread have had many a discussion with Steve.

I know. It was a flippant response, but he is more familiar with Deathcore than me.

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he is considered narrow minded ... not a musical savant.

I don't consider him a musical savant either. While there are some good musicians around here, there is only one I know of who reaches any type of level approaching savant (and he hasn't been here in a long time). I don't consider him narrow minded, though. He recognizes that there is objectivity to art and that the recurrent musical patterns in any movement, including Death Metal, are not arbitrary or random. There is ample room within Death Metal for growth, even from an allegedly constrictive view. It's just that not all growth is good; for example, cancerous growth is bad.
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Old 04-27-2013, 12:53 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotFromANUS
Ask Steve.

Or, I could not...


Quote:
I don't think this actually makes it closer to Death Metal. Death Metal effectively died in the early 90's, with only a few notable exceptions. There were some bands that began experimenting with different approaches to the genre (e.g. Supuration, Gorguts, Martyr) and the artistically vacuous Slam movement. Most of what is considered "Progressive Death Metal," from which this band draws heavy influence, deviates substantially from Death Metal both in riff craft and structure.

And yet, by virtue of being progressive, it doesn't have to draw solely on Death Metal in riff craft or structure, though the influence must be heavy I'll admit.

Quote:
I wouldn't even really consider Necrophagist to be Death Metal.

And yet, everyone else would. Or at least, they'd call them Technical/Progressive (depending on who you asked) Death Metal. I really don't know what, other than the fact that they're not Death Metal in the vein of what you consider "pure Death Metal", you base this idea on.

Quote:
So the fact that this band is moving in a direction that is removed from Death Metal doesn't mean anything in and of itself, but taking the music as is, it clearly is closely related to Deathcore (as I previously stated).

Yes, it's rather hard for bands to completely remove the influence of an earlier genre from their writing style.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotFromANUS
I know. It was a flippant response, but he is more familiar with Deathcore than me.

Steve seems to loathe Deathcore, so I don't know how he'd be familiar with it. I've seen him bash the genre several times in the Deathcore thread.

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There is ample room within Death Metal for growth, even from an allegedly constrictive view.

Didn't you say above that you think Death Metal effectively died in the '90s, with some notable exceptions?
I'm confused. Either you're saying that only a few exceptions will cause it to grow (which could be true); or you're saying that, "in reality", Death Metal really won't see a lot of growth and will probably subsequently die off. Either way, I don't see how you could support either of those statements with anything other than mere opinion. Time will tell naturally, in both cases.
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:02 AM   #29
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He's saying that the genre stopped having consistent growth after the '90's. There have obviously been bands and albums that have brought something fresh to the table, but it's certainly not been like the '90's were.

I also asked Steve and am waiting for a reply.
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:06 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Morphogenesis26
He's saying that the genre stopped having consistent growth after the '90's. There have obviously been bands and albums that have brought something fresh to the table, but it's certainly not been like the '90's were.

Ok, I would agree with that, but I also don't see that as a huge issue.
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:09 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
Ok, I would agree with that, but I also don't see that as a huge issue.


It's not an issue because it's the inevitable outcome for any genre of music. He doesn't see it as an issue, at least I don't think he does, he just thinks that there have been bands that have played Death Metal in a unique way and did it right, but calling bands that play an extremely different style of Metal as Death Metal for 'cause it's kind of similar is silly.

That's what I got out of it anyway. Oh, and Martyr is really good.
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:20 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Morphogenesis26
It's not an issue because it's the inevitable outcome for any genre of music. He doesn't see it as an issue, at least I don't think he does, he just thinks that there have been bands that have played Death Metal in a unique way and did it right, but calling bands that play an extremely different style of Metal as Death Metal for 'cause it's kind of similar is silly.

Yes, but the style isn't that dissimilar from Progressive Death Metal, which is my main point.
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:32 AM   #33
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I'm actually curious; what are you calling Progressive Death Metal?
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:27 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Morphogenesis26
I'm actually curious; what are you calling Progressive Death Metal?

I personally define it as something with a heavy death metal influence (this being the strongest and most obvious influence), interesting arrangements, occasional odd time signatures (optional), and often with influences from other genres.
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Old 04-27-2013, 12:01 PM   #35
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uh how about death metal that progresses
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:13 PM   #36
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@Sam: Give your best examples of Progressive Death Metal bands.

@TWC: Could you be more specific to what you mean by "progresses"?
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Old 04-27-2013, 02:00 PM   #37
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no
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Old 04-27-2013, 02:05 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Morphogenesis26
He's saying that the genre stopped having consistent growth after the '90's. There have obviously been bands and albums that have brought something fresh to the table, but it's certainly not been like the '90's were.

I also asked Steve and am waiting for a reply.

My issue with people saying this is that there really has been consistent growth in death metal and through its influence, but so many die-hard fans are so attached to early DM for whatever reason that they reject all of that out of hand.

It's akin to people insisting that good music died in *insert decade here*. There has been growth and expansion; they just don't like it.
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Old 04-27-2013, 02:50 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Morphogenesis26
@TWC: Could you be more specific to what you mean by "progresses"?

like starts out death/doom and develops into pop punk post thrash by the end
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Old 04-27-2013, 03:10 PM   #40
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no


okay

@Geldin: Could you name me some bands? :3
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