Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Music > Musician Talk
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 04-23-2013, 09:43 PM   #1
krm27
Registered User
 
krm27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
not sure what to call this chord??

I was trying to figure the chord names for this tab/song Bound for the Floor by Local H

eb-x-x-x-x--x-x-x-x-x-x--x-x-x-x--x-x-x-x-x-x-|
Bb-0-0-0-0--0-0-0-0-0-0--0-0-0-0--0-0-0-0-0-0-|
Gb-4-4-4-4--4-4-4-4-4-4--4-4-4-4--4-4-4-5-4-5-|
Db-2-2-2-2--2-2-2-2-2-2--0-0-0-0--0-0-0-0-0-0-|
Ab-0-0-0-0--3-3-3-3-3-3--2-2-2-2--5-5-5-5-5-5-|
Eb-x-x-x-x--0-0-0-0-0-0--3-3-3-3--x-x-x-x-x-x-|

I think the first is Absus9.

I got stumped on the second, has Eb, B and Bb...
I wanna call it some kind of Eb6 except the 6 is flattened one semitone, right? What do you call an Eb6b?

Then just an unusual voicing for Gb

Then there's the last section with two chords, I guess, the first being Db, Db, Bb, Bb...maybe that would not be a chord at all but some kind of double double stop?...with an ending alternation to Db, Db, B, Bb. Is there a name for these? Some kind of Db something and something else?

Ken

Last edited by krm27 : 04-23-2013 at 09:44 PM.
krm27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2013, 10:45 PM   #2
NoelGallagher23
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
If you know how to play the chords why do you need to know the names?
NoelGallagher23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2013, 11:11 PM   #3
FRACTUREDx2
Guitarist and Pianist
 
Join Date: May 2009
The second one isn't really a full chord but it's closest to an Eb+. That sharpened 5th makes it augmented, but without a 3rd you really can't tell. For the last chord(s) you really just have to listen to the song because the guitar isn't playing enough notes to clearly point out what chord is going on there.
__________________
If it's creative, true to your musical goal, and it sounds good, put it in the song.

1. Guitar, delay, verb, amp, and creativity.
2. Well-tuned acoustic piano and creativity.
3. A bottle of water.
FRACTUREDx2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2013, 11:15 PM   #4
Captaincranky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by krm27
Then there's the last section with two chords, I guess, the first being Db, Db, Bb, Bb...

Ken
Given the rest of the context, that is probably Bb minor, no 5th. Which as you say, really isn't a chord but it probably would go with the flow of the rest of the progression
Captaincranky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2013, 11:33 PM   #5
Reighnart
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Another note would solve the dilema. Anywho. At first I thought Bmaj7/D# but that doesn't make as much sense as Eb+ in context to the key. Totes go with Eb+
__________________
1966 Stella Harmony Acoustic
Epiphone Dot Studio
Fender Starcaster (Made by 5 year olds in China)
THE Epiphone Mandolin
Dean 7 String (Totally Korean)
Yamaha C45m
Mitchell 12 MD100S


Reighnart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 01:06 PM   #6
TDKshorty
The Swami
 
TDKshorty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Absus2 CbMaj7, Gb, Db (with the 6 up to the 7th)

That's what you would call them, are at least that's what I would, recognizing that the missing tones would result in a slightly different sound to fit in with the other chords.
__________________
And we will weave in and out of sanity unnoticed
Swirling in blissfully restless visions of all our bleary progress
Glowing in radiant madness
TDKshorty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 01:27 PM   #7
krm27
Registered User
 
krm27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
To answer the "why does it matter" question, I am trying to know how to name chords, in part to move them to another key, incorporate them into my own songwriting and playing. So when I see a combination of 3 notes that sound good, or great, to my ear, and I cannot think what to call the chord, I want to figure it out.

The exercise / problem is easier for me to consider if I take out the fact that the guitar is tuned down a half step, get rid of those flats, and focus on the intervallic relationships.

In standard tuning, it's basically the following progression:
Ch1 Ch2 Ch3 Ch4 Ch5
|x |x |x |x |x
|B |B |B |B |B
|B |B |B |B |C
|E |E |D |D |D
|A |C |B |D |D
|x |E |G |x |x

If I can get names for these five chords, then I know the song is the same progression, just down a halfstep.

Ch1 = Asus9?
Ch2 = E6b? (flattened 6th replacing third? not sure how to write this)
Ch3 = G
Ch4 = partial inverted Bm?
Ch5 = partial inverted Bmadd9?

I've been self-teaching myself music theory / guitar for a couple years, so maybe I'm asking the wrong questions or wording this badly, sorry. I generally learn songs, get a sense of the chord progressions, see how they build / release tension, and then I try to incorporate that myself. But labels help me keep it organized, and also really help when you want to transfer an idea to another key. At least in my experience so far. I think if I knew what the hypertechnical / classical / Julliard type of answer to this would be, it would help me wrap my head around music theory, song-writing, etc.

I guess I am also having the assumption whenever you have 3 different notes played simultaneously, that will amount to some form of nameable chord (however dischordant it may sound).

Ken
krm27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 01:43 PM   #8
crazysam23_Atax
Burning away
 
crazysam23_Atax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cal-eye-forn-ia
Well, a lot of what you would call the chords depends on the context. In this case, I think TDKshorty is correct. But recognize that, with chords like these, the "names" of the chord would vary depending upon the key. Here, the key is Ab.

Notice how the 5th chord almost pushes back to the 1st chord? In other words, it sounds "resolved" when you go from the 5th chord to the 1st chord. As an aside, btw, this kind of progression is called a "half cadence", meaning it only feels "half complete". Progressions like this make very good (but simple to play) repeating rhythm figures; just a songwriting tip there.
__________________
Tunes?

Bandcamp

Now working on my upcoming EP "Discarnate". See the expected track list on my bandcamp.



Terry Prachett is funnier than you! Discworld

Last edited by crazysam23_Atax : 04-24-2013 at 01:47 PM.
crazysam23_Atax is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 05:22 PM   #9
Sean0913
Music Theory Renegade
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by krm27
To answer the "why does it matter" question, I am trying to know how to name chords, in part to move them to another key, incorporate them into my own songwriting and playing. So when I see a combination of 3 notes that sound good, or great, to my ear, and I cannot think what to call the chord, I want to figure it out.

The exercise / problem is easier for me to consider if I take out the fact that the guitar is tuned down a half step, get rid of those flats, and focus on the intervallic relationships.

In standard tuning, it's basically the following progression:
Ch1 Ch2 Ch3 Ch4 Ch5
|x |x |x |x |x
|B |B |B |B |B
|B |B |B |B |C
|E |E |D |D |D
|A |C |B |D |D
|x |E |G |x |x

If I can get names for these five chords, then I know the song is the same progression, just down a halfstep.

Ch1 = Asus9?
Ch2 = E6b? (flattened 6th replacing third? not sure how to write this)
Ch3 = G
Ch4 = partial inverted Bm?
Ch5 = partial inverted Bmadd9?

I've been self-teaching myself music theory / guitar for a couple years, so maybe I'm asking the wrong questions or wording this badly, sorry. I generally learn songs, get a sense of the chord progressions, see how they build / release tension, and then I try to incorporate that myself. But labels help me keep it organized, and also really help when you want to transfer an idea to another key. At least in my experience so far. I think if I knew what the hypertechnical / classical / Julliard type of answer to this would be, it would help me wrap my head around music theory, song-writing, etc.

I guess I am also having the assumption whenever you have 3 different notes played simultaneously, that will amount to some form of nameable chord (however dischordant it may sound).

Ken


Great tune

If you go with that, Eb b6 then you have to call the b6 a Cbb. No B whatsoever is a 6 of E.

I'm gonna analyze it in standard tuning. Essentially you have... I bIII bVII IV

A5 add 9

C maj7/E (no 5), not sure I'd play the open E

G maj 6

D6

The point to me, is this is all a pedal tone, over a repeated motif. That's the function of the chords. The names are consequential.

Best,

Sean
__________________
Guitar Teacher/Mentor

An Online, Theory Based Guitar School

Stuck? I Mentor Guitar Players for Free.

If you are interested in the Academy, I offer a free Skype-based Demo. Just contact me on my profile, and we can work out the times.
Sean0913 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 07:04 PM   #10
cdgraves
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
I'd call them G#5add9, Bmaj7/D#, F#, and C#6 and 7 (no third). I use the sharps because it requires fewer sharps in the key signature than flats.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NoelGallagher23
If you know how to play the chords why do you need to know the names?

same reason knowing how to talk isn't a replacement for literacy.
cdgraves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 10:06 PM   #11
crazysam23_Atax
Burning away
 
crazysam23_Atax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cal-eye-forn-ia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean0913
The point to me, is this is all a pedal tone, over a repeated motif. That's the function of the chords. The names are consequential.

This is true. I'd have to see the rest of the song though to know whether the pedal tone is important (meaning what the key of the rest of the song is and how the pedal tone factors into the overall harmony).
__________________
Tunes?

Bandcamp

Now working on my upcoming EP "Discarnate". See the expected track list on my bandcamp.



Terry Prachett is funnier than you! Discworld
crazysam23_Atax is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2013, 02:32 AM   #12
:-D
hi
 
:-D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoelGallagher23
If you know how to play the chords why do you need to know the names?

did you actually post this after saying to yourself "yes, this is what i'd like to say" or did you just go ahead and type this because it was the first thing that came to mind

if the former then that's awful, and if the latter then, well, that's awful

hm.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archeo Avis
You just won.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockaholic97
Thanks! I wish everyone on Ultimate Guitar could be more like you!
:-D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2013, 05:03 AM   #13
Sean0913
Music Theory Renegade
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
This is true. I'd have to see the rest of the song though to know whether the pedal tone is important (meaning what the key of the rest of the song is and how the pedal tone factors into the overall harmony).



It's a "dressed up" A C G D.

Best,

Sean
__________________
Guitar Teacher/Mentor

An Online, Theory Based Guitar School

Stuck? I Mentor Guitar Players for Free.

If you are interested in the Academy, I offer a free Skype-based Demo. Just contact me on my profile, and we can work out the times.
Sean0913 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2013, 07:54 AM   #14
mdc
UG's Mr Chord Man
 
mdc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by krm27
I was trying to figure the chord names for this tab/song Bound for the Floor by Local H

eb-x-x-x-x--x-x-x-x-x-x--x-x-x-x--x-x-x-x-x-x-|
Bb-0-0-0-0--0-0-0-0-0-0--0-0-0-0--0-0-0-0-0-0-|
Gb-4-4-4-4--4-4-4-4-4-4--4-4-4-4--4-4-4-5-4-5-|
Db-2-2-2-2--2-2-2-2-2-2--0-0-0-0--0-0-0-0-0-0-|
Ab-0-0-0-0--3-3-3-3-3-3--2-2-2-2--5-5-5-5-5-5-|
Eb-x-x-x-x--0-0-0-0-0-0--3-3-3-3--x-x-x-x-x-x-|

I think the first is Absus9.

I got stumped on the second, has Eb, B and Bb...
I wanna call it some kind of Eb6 except the 6 is flattened one semitone, right? What do you call an Eb6b?

Then just an unusual voicing for Gb

Then there's the last section with two chords, I guess, the first being Db, Db, Bb, Bb...maybe that would not be a chord at all but some kind of double double stop?...with an ending alternation to Db, Db, B, Bb. Is there a name for these? Some kind of Db something and something else?

Ken

Asus2 - Cma7/E - G - Bm/D with a auxillary note

All down a semitone obviously.

The last chord i'm reluctant to label as a D. I mean, D6 with no 3rd no 5th? Nah.

Last edited by mdc : 04-25-2013 at 09:13 AM.
mdc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2013, 11:40 AM   #15
crazysam23_Atax
Burning away
 
crazysam23_Atax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cal-eye-forn-ia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean0913
It's a "dressed up" A C G D.

Yes, I gathered that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdc
The last chord i'm reluctant to label as a D. I mean, D6 with no 3rd no 5th? Nah.

If you think of it in terms of cadences, labeling it as Db makes it a "false Half Cadence". If you labeled it a Bbmin inversion (which is what Bbm/Db is, an inversion), then it really wouldn't imply an sort of resolution. But since the progression clearly resolves in the manner of a Half Cadence (even though it's really not a true Half Cadence), it makes sense to label the last chord a Db6 (No3rd).

Btw, there are plenty of chord voicings without a 5th. They don't sound as "nice" or "natural" (frankly, I don't think the point of this chord progression is to sound "nice" or "natural" anyway), but a chord without a 5th is perfectly acceptable.
__________________
Tunes?

Bandcamp

Now working on my upcoming EP "Discarnate". See the expected track list on my bandcamp.



Terry Prachett is funnier than you! Discworld

Last edited by crazysam23_Atax : 04-25-2013 at 11:44 AM.
crazysam23_Atax is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 08:23 PM   #16
MissingSomethin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
LOL, the kid who wrote this song had no idea about chord names. He was just some kid who was trying to get some random chords to work. The exotic and nonsensical chord names make this something it's entirely not. You have a pedal point at B. That's all the theory in this song.
__________________
1978 Les Paul Custom Sunburst
2001 USA Strat (Hot & Cool Rails)
Effects: Boss GT-6 with Tech-21 Power Amp

Last edited by MissingSomethin : 04-26-2013 at 08:24 PM.
MissingSomethin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 11:14 PM   #17
:-D
hi
 
:-D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Earth
^your username is so appropriate
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archeo Avis
You just won.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockaholic97
Thanks! I wish everyone on Ultimate Guitar could be more like you!
:-D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 11:52 PM   #18
macashmack
Maskcashmack
 
macashmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingSomethin
LOL, the kid who wrote this song had no idea about chord names. He was just some kid who was trying to get some random chords to work. The exotic and nonsensical chord names make this something it's entirely not. You have a pedal point at B. That's all the theory in this song.

You, sir, are incorrect. Saying that's all the theory in this song implies that songs can have more or less theory than other songs, which in itself is wrong.
macashmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2013, 12:06 AM   #19
Captaincranky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by macashmack
You, sir, are incorrect. Saying that's all the theory in this song implies that songs can have more or less theory than other songs, which in itself is wrong.
That would be predicated on whether the theory was applied at the time the song was written, or at the time (now), when theory is being used to dissect it, now wouldn't it?

Because this forum has the potential of making mountains out of molehills. Let's say for example, we decide to analyze a I, IV, V song. We heck we could dredge up musical history over the ages, and trace the lineage of I, IV, V. We could examine the relevance to the well emotional being of the listener, because of the return to the tonic. We could say the I, IV, V is a microcosm of the circle of life in a dust to dusty G major sense.....(yadda, yadda, yadda)......

Last edited by Captaincranky : 04-27-2013 at 12:13 AM.
Captaincranky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2013, 02:51 PM   #20
MissingSomethin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captaincranky
That would be predicated on whether the theory was applied at the time the song was written, or at the time (now), when theory is being used to dissect it, now wouldn't it?

:


That is exactly the point I was trying to make. You could just start smashing notes on a piano with both fists, and someone could then figure out you're playing a E maj 9 -5 (add 13) and F#7b9#5
__________________
1978 Les Paul Custom Sunburst
2001 USA Strat (Hot & Cool Rails)
Effects: Boss GT-6 with Tech-21 Power Amp
MissingSomethin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:22 PM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.