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Old 04-30-2013, 07:31 PM   #1
Revocation89
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2500 USD of budget for buying a new guitar and analog stuff

hey guys,

My name is Ricardo, I've posted this already in guitarmessenger and rig-talk, but i want to have the most support I can get (so sorry for those who've seen the threads already). Atm I've 2500 USD to spend in a new guitar and some pedals. Why not an amp? well, since I live in Colombia, importing a good amp would be hell expensive, and I'm buying all this stuff for touring with my band, so I'll be always playing in 3rd party amps. So, lets get started.

I'm into Death metal, Technical Death, Progressive death, Metalcore, Deathcore and some Djent. I've been thinking about buying a Hellraiser C1 FR extreme or a Backjack SLS C-1 FR as when I make some research that's what I find as "the best" for metal, but I wanted to know what's your opinion cause some people have gave me advices of buying a Carvin but tbh I don't know anything about these gutiars.

What effects do I need?

Well to be honest in this 11 years playing electric guitar I never took care of this kind of stuff so I need some support here. I need something to get distortions alike to bands like "The faceless", "Dying fetus", "The red chord", "Cattle decapitation", just need something that give me a sound of the genres I play. What else I need? analog EQ? uhmm delay, chorus, reverb for solos? (I'm totally new at this so, believe me I don't know what I'm talking about).

This is what I've been thinking to get:

-Hardwire RV-7 Stereo Reverb Pedal
-Hardwire DL-8 Stereo Delay Looper Pedal
-Decimator ISP Technologies Noise Reduction
-Maxon OD808
-Fulltone OCD

I still have doubts regarding the Guitar, and have also doubts if the gain I get with the maxon and fulltone would be enough (maybe enough for metalcore, but enough for death metal? 'I've a metalcore band and a technical death metal band)


Hope to get some help with this guys, thank you in advance!
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:59 PM   #2
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line 6 pod hd500 and a ibanez 7 string it will cover all if not most of what you want also try looking at some modern modeling software like amplitude guitar rig peavy revalver etc.
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:25 PM   #3
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I have a line 6 pod hd pro, remarkably versatile. There are better amp modelers out there but nowhere near the value in terms of cash. I ordered a carvin that comes in this thursday, they're wonderful instruments but it'll be more expensive because you don't live in the US and their pickups aren't all that suitable for the kind of music you want to play, you would have to change them and since Carvin is a custom company their pickups are a custom size and you would have to do some routing on your guitar to fit new pups, might be more trouble than it's worth.
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:51 PM   #4
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Would an Engl E530 be too much to carry around? If not get that and throw it into the FX return of all the amps you have to play through. Personal preference but that is my favorite modern metal tone. I don't like modelling stuff that much for dirt but YMMV. Probably a good idea for a nice modeler to do your chorus, reverb, delay etc. especially since you aren't sure what you want in that department. 7-string Ibby's are nice. My friend has a mid-priced one (Like $500 USD) and it's beautiful and sweet to play. With your budget, I'm sure you can get a very nice one. The Ironlabel stuff looks amazing, and an RG is never a bad choice.
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:40 PM   #5
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lol at the first two people recommending Line 6 stuff when you said analog. He didn't say $300 budget guys, he said $2500.

What amp do you currently have that you will be running those pedals through?
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:02 PM   #6
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The only distortion pedal I've ever found to get a good distortion for heavy shit is the boss mt-2. As for guitars, Schecter is a good path to take, but stay the hell away from floyd rose bridges unless you absolutely need one. A mahogany hellraiser with a string-through bridge should leave you a massive metal tone without the temperamental bridge and it's wonderful tension springs. I would tell you to get a Gibson Les Paul Studio, but that'd kill almost half your budget. As for amps, tube are the way to go, but remember that solid state amps don't break down and i've noticed hold up way better in the long run.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:03 PM   #7
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a rack compressor would be nice too. i've never really looked too much into them, but my buddy's dad had one on his marshall stack and i remember every pinch harmonic sounding sweeter to my ears.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo's Guitar
lol at the first two people recommending Line 6 stuff when you said analog.


He didn't say analog, he said "analog EQ?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo's Guitar
$300 budget guys, he said $2500.

What amp do you currently have that you will be running those pedals through?


Do you even read? He's planning to use these on tour, and will be using the on-site amps.

Line 6 makes sense when you take into account the fact that he has to run his sound into multiple unknown amps or a PA... in which case he can at last have some level of consistency and control over his tone.

Otherwise, he'd have to settle for having varying different sound at different venues. With a Pod HD at least he can plug it into the power section of the local amps and have some control over the modeling.

TS: If you had 2500... I'd say go with something like the AxeFX or Kempler profiling amp... but since you might not be the kind to sit and twiddle settings... and plus you'd need a guitar, I suggest a used Line 6 Pod HD 500... that'll give you a wide range of control over your sound from venue to venue.

Technically for metal, there isn't one brand that is the go to maker for metal guitars... there are a few perennial brands which are associated with metal like Ibanez, Schecter or ESP... but what's more important are things like:

1. Scale length - typically you'd want a longer scale length like 25" to 25.5". That'll give you a tighter and more responsive string response
2. pickups - again, most "metal" guitars are loaded with high output humbuckers
3. bridge - Flyod rose? Fixed bridge? Usually not the Fender synchronized tremolo
4. Strings - 6 string? 7? 8? 10?
5. Body type - usually solid bodies rather than semi-hollow
6. Design - Strat? SG? LP? Flying V? RR etc?

Beyond these considerations, all other guitar considerations tend to be aesthetic or comfort related.

Have you looked at the Ibanez website? The new Iron Label series look interesting.

It's got minimal appointments, painted black, EMG pickups, fix and FR bridge, 6 or 7 string, no tone control.... that's your typical "metal" guitar right there.

Otherwise if you want more flash, their RG and S Premium line have really nice specs, and for the price range, are good value for money.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuryMeInSmoke94
The only distortion pedal I've ever found to get a good distortion for heavy shit is the boss mt-2. As for guitars, Schecter is a good path to take, but stay the hell away from floyd rose bridges unless you absolutely need one. A mahogany hellraiser with a string-through bridge should leave you a massive metal tone without the temperamental bridge and it's wonderful tension springs. I would tell you to get a Gibson Les Paul Studio, but that'd kill almost half your budget. As for amps, tube are the way to go, but remember that solid state amps don't break down and i've noticed hold up way better in the long run.


MT-2 was HORRIBLE .....


The POD HD is actually a great suggestion. The 500 is the most flexible and can run two amps at once. If your current amp has an serial FX you can run it as the preamp. Loads of quality effects on-board.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo's Guitar
lol at the first two people recommending Line 6 stuff when you said analog. He didn't say $300 budget guys, he said $2500.

What amp do you currently have that you will be running those pedals through?


LOL at this guy who thinks higher end Line 6 stuff is crap or even cheap (youtube search Line 6 Vetta II if you think that). An amp modeler comes with tons of effects pre-loaded the convenience/economic value makes sense IMO. Personally if I were him I'd spend most of my cash on the guitar. Get yourself a higher end guitar because you have the money for it. Look at it this way: it's easier to save 150 or 200 USD if you want a pedal but it'll be a lot harder to save 2 grand for a really nice guitar.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:44 PM   #11
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I'd say the Line 6 Pod HD 500 makes the most sense. Spend the rest on the guitars, misc cables and other bullshit you are going to need. Maybe look at ESP and Jackson guitars too, not sure what is available or how much they would run. I think Schecter gets a bad rap, but they are good quality for the money. Not great. Just good. It is the internal electronics that suffer the most.

The Axe FX idea is a good one too but will eat into your budget more.


Edit ^ like these guys are saying.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:50 PM   #12
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Pretty much agreed with what's been said so far, but if you've got a decent guitar already, I'd grab a Kemper or AxeFX. Even if not, I'd probably grab a used Axe Standard or Ultra for $1000-1400 or so and then spend the rest on a guitar.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:52 PM   #13
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Jackson, ESP, Ibanez are my favorite metal guitars.

Really though it doesn't matter. You can run a fender strat and be metal as **** if you have right pickups. I like pointy guitars and as such Jackson and ESP are my favorite. All depends on the model you buy. Not all are created equal...

Jackson has a great neck-thru line up right now. Priced very reasonably. They are MIC if I remember correctly but the QC is on par with quality imports.



Edit- good point on the Used Axe-FX. I have not played one so I don't know how they compare with the POD HD. The floor POD 500 already has the foot controller so it saves on that...


Edit 2: the guitar thing will be rough of you can't play them in person first. Different neck profiles can kill a guitar for playability.
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:28 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by R45VT
Edit- good point on the Used Axe-FX. I have not played one so I don't know how they compare with the POD HD. The floor POD 500 already has the foot controller so it saves on that...


In terms of performance not really much comparison but the price difference will hit harder to most guitarist rather than the performance, how often do you walk into a guitar center that has a axe-fx. As for guitar a 7 string would be able to cover jdent to some extent, depending on how versatile of a musician you are, as well as metalcore Death Metal etc (drop A tuning) with some classic trash and classic metal with out a tuning change. Imo Ibanez Agile and Schecter make the best 7/8 strings but because im a shredder i'm a little biased towards Ibanez.
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:26 AM   #15
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I don't like 7 strings.

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Old 05-01-2013, 05:37 AM   #16
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Definitely get a POD HD500. Don't **** around with pedals - if you're using the venues amps, just assume you're going to be playing into a shitty amp with a shitty preamp. Why run a bunch of high end / boutique pedals into shit? Just bypass all of that with the Line 6. You could even go directly into the PA, everyone wins.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:03 PM   #17
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Hey guys! Thanks for the answers, wow 15 replies that's great. Well I think there are many things I'd like to discuss here:

1. Guitar: So aren't the Schecters reliable because of bad rap, and some electronic stuff problems? In that case I'd go for an ESP or an Ibanez. I have a question, when do you know when is FR needed? I've never used one, so I think I wouldn't go for a FR model. regarding scale yeah 25 would be good, U or C neck type, metal pickups (I guess something like Active EMG?), regarding shape I like normal body types like fender or gibson. But I don't care so much of aesthetics, I focus 99% on the sound.

2. Effects: I was wondering about your opinions guys because most of the times playing live I'll be playing on high end amps (yeah the venue amps). And the other band's guitarist has his pedal board and stuff. I think to have the pedal board would be really good if at least the 80% of the times I'll play through good amps. But here is my question, what's the difference of playing with great analog pedals into a shitty amp, and playing with a digital profiling amp into the same amp? Is there any way of getting a good soung with the analog pedals through a shitty amp?

And to practice at home I don't have an amp, and can't get one ATM cause I have to focus the budget to uy reliable stuff for touring, not for practicing at home. Anyways I wanted to know, how would it sound to plug the pedals into a focusritte sound card (8i6) and play through KRK VXT 6 monitors?

Looking forward to your answers and opinions,
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:41 PM   #18
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A floyd rose is just a locking tremelo bridge. If you haven't needed to use one before, you wont need one now.

http://www.schecterguitars.com/prod...X-Baritone.aspx

Grab one of those schecters with the emg actives and you'll be set. Pair it up with ap od hd500 and you should come under budget easily. Also since you dont have an amp, pick up a pair of headphones, probably like a pair of senheiser 280s and then you'll be able to play through your pod at home.

Last edited by HammerParty : 05-01-2013 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:08 PM   #19
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Thank you hammer!

I have sennheiser 650hd, but I'm still doubtful if the analogs would be a better choice (more realistic sounds). I practice at home with a marshall G10MK.II, actually I like it because it highlights my playing through mistakes (due to its "not so crappy, but not good sound of course). Remember I'm getting all this stuff to play on venue amps (Marshall JMC-800 is the most used amp for these events backline) not for practicing at home.

So Finally, let's finish the topic deciding:

1. Should I get the hellraiser or blackjack (for 1100 USD) and buy a bunch of analog babies like the ones I mentioned in the opening of the topic? Or should I buy some higher end guitar (I only like 6 strings my hands are so small) and buy the POD HD 500.

2. If the analog stuff is the best option for touring and playing on these amps, do you think my choice is good? I'd consider getting a compressor too, which pedal board would you recommend me, cables, a case? and is OCD fulltone a best option for the gain? ( I don't like distortion pedals like boss metal zone or metalcore, digitech dath metalm metal muff) I like Overdrive like fulltone or maxone or hardrive tube distortion or something like that, I'm looking forward to get the best gain possible to play my genres (maybe some mixing of gain pedals?).

Or as I said, just get thee POD HD 500?

Thanks guys.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:56 PM   #20
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Even if the amps you play through, are good, they're still different amps. The problem with standalone pedals is there will be no consistency. A pedal may sound amazing through one amp and shit through another. Modeling with a POD will always have self contained consistency. That's why I strongly recommend the DSP route.
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