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Old 05-06-2013, 04:39 AM   #1
Yper
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Which scales to use on E F G chord rotation

Hello everyone. I hope my question is not tiresome but people here seem kind and thought you may help me out.

So, which scales to use on E F G (barred G) rotation ? You know that these chords combined have a distinct Spanish feeling to them. So, my goal is to be capable one day to improvise on them.

I have a second question as well: how to create a backing track with these chords? Or is such a track downloadable somewhere on the internet ?

Thank you very much
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Old 05-06-2013, 04:56 AM   #2
MaggaraMarine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yper
Hello everyone. I hope my question is not tiresome but people here seem kind and thought you may help me out.

So, which scales to use on E F G (barred G) rotation ? You know that these chords combined have a distinct Spanish feeling to them. So, my goal is to be capable one day to improvise on them.

I have a second question as well: how to create a backing track with these chords? Or is such a track downloadable somewhere on the internet ?

Thank you very much

There isn't really one scale that would fit every chord in this progression. You need to use some accidentals. Phrygian dominant is what scale you could base your solo on. Think more in sounds than just fingerings - learn how different notes sound over these chords. You can build your own scales by yourself. Just try different notes over the chords and choose the notes that you like.



And how to make a backing track? Well, you need a looper or a recorder and just record the chords you want to play over. Just strum the chords and there you go.

You could maybe find a backing track but if you can do it by yourself, why not do it? If you know what you are after, I wouldn't waste time to search for a backing track, I would do my own. Just record the chords and play over them. It's so simple.
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Last edited by MaggaraMarine : 05-06-2013 at 04:58 AM.
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:22 AM   #3
luvs2gro
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Want to learn how to improvise over any chord progression?

You could start off by playing chord tones on beats 1 and 3 and passing tones on 2 and 4.

this is how I learned to improvise at the local college and if you analyze charlie parker's solo's it is actually the same thing he does.

don't take that rhythm part too seriously now, to start off with just focus on the notes themselves.

So take the notes that make up the E chord... and play them over the E, when the chord changes to F find the notes that make up the F chord and play them over the F. Same with the G, find the notes in the G and use them over the chord.

now you know what a chord tone is, a passing tone are the other notes in the corresponding scale that do not fit into the chord.

of course this is only a very very very simple definition as it is 4:18 am where I am at and I can't be bothered to write a whole article explaining further... but do some research on using chord tones and passing tones then no matter what the progression you will be able to solo over it. In fact it has been explained here before I will link you to a thread where me and another user explain this. :P

link is in spoiler

show
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:35 AM   #4
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Are you sure you didn't mean the chords Em F G?
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:50 AM   #5
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Thank you very much for taking your time to answer me. Someone told me that if a chord rotation begins and ends with a certain chord (E in my case) I need to play a scale which root note is E. Is that true? I forgot to mention that I took up the guitar 16 month ago and I'm more or less an intermediate player. I feel that creating my one scale is a bit over my level and I should stick to things that are fixed and work. I don't want to look like a lazy person but is there a chance for someone advanced to tell me something like: 'use the major scale with the root note on that fret" or some other scale etc. I just think that understanding progressions, modes, melody and other stuff will simply take me too long to grasp. Can I simply start right away practicing scales that fit into that chord (E F G) progression ?

Thank you very much
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steven seagull
Are you sure you didn't mean the chords Em F G?


No but I guess it sounds cool with Em as well
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:56 AM   #7
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Hey, seagull, is there possibly a way that we can make a sticky for "how do i solo over this chord progression?" I see the thread come up every now and then.. not dreadfully often but still. is it all covered in the music theory FAQ guide thread? if not i am willing to break it down and compile all the info into a thread so instead of some one making a thread every time they come up with a progression to solo over we can just have one general thread they can refer to.. again if its already in the M.T. F.A.Q. guide master thread I guess they should just refer to that any way haha

On topic:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yper
Thank you very much for taking your time to answer me. Someone told me that if a chord rotation begins and ends with a certain chord (E in my case) I need to play a scale which root note is E. Is that true? I forgot to mention that I took up the guitar 16 month ago and I'm more or less an intermediate player. I feel that creating my one scale is a bit over my level and I should stick to things that are fixed and work. I don't want to look like a lazy person but is there a chance for someone advanced to tell me something like: 'use the major scale with the root note on that fret" or some other scale etc. I just think that understanding progressions, modes, melody and other stuff will simply take me too long to grasp. Can I simply start right away practicing scales that fit into that chord (E F G) progression ?

Thank you very much


Well, if I am understanding your first question right, then yes generally you will play a scale which has the same root note as the chord you are playing.
Honestly the easiest I can make it you have to know 2 things, the scales for the chords you are playing over and the formula of the chords.

Unfortunately to my knowledge there is no one scale that will work with the chords you have chosen, but then again I haven't really analyzed the progression yet.
I can walk you through it if you'd like

the formula for a major triad is 1, 3, 5,

its called a triad because it has 3 notes.

the 1 3 5 comes from the major scale

1 2 3 4 5 6 7
C D E F G A B
to make a C major triad we take the first note (or the root) and the 3rd note and the 5th note. so if you take the notes C, E, and G, you have just created a C major chord! :P

Now if you need to make a minor triad instead of a major simply take the 3 and lower it by 1 fret (or a half step)

now, onto your progression:


the notes of E major are :
E, G#, and B

E is the root, G# is the 3rd and B is the 5th

moving on to F major the notes are:
F, A, and C
F is the root, A is the 3rd and C is the 5th

Next is G major, the notes are:
G, B, and D
G is the root, B is the 3rd and D is the 5th.

All together your 9 chord tones are:
E, F, G, G#, A, B, C, and D,


As for finding a scale that shares the same or similar notes, I found that the C major bebop scale resembles the closest to what you are looking for.

the notes are C D E F G G# A B

It has all the same notes as the chords you are using so "theoretically" this is the scale you are asking for. experiment with it and see how it works on your chord progression

how ever I am not sure how useful that will be to you. it may just make it more confusing trying to use that one scale over those chords. but then again it may not.

I recommend taking it SLOW, try using only the 9 notes that make up your chord and only use them when that chord is being played. It may not be the most exciting but it is the easiest way to build a foundation to improvise over, once you become more advanced in music theory try adding passing tones (the notes that are in the E, F, and G major scales that aren't in the chord) remember that there is no one magic scale or shape that will work for every progression, honestly I wish some one would have showed me the whole chord tones/passing tones shpeal years earlier as it took me a while to break away from all the minor pentatonic stuff or (break out of the box) dont get me wrong the pentatonic scales are powerful when used right but don't rely on them for everything. again, take it slow, familiarize your self with the notes and where they should go and once you start to get it add a little more here and there. I hope this is what you are asking for, sorry if it is not. hope this helps and good luck on your journey of improvisation!! stick with it and take a break if you ever get frustrated. good luck friend!
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Last edited by luvs2gro : 05-06-2013 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:03 AM   #8
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I'm sorry. I know that there are always (in every forum there is) newbies who come and post a singular questions and expect a singular answer. I'm sorry for bothering you - you are not forced to give me a precise answer. Anyway, if I have motivation to become a good guitar player I will have to someday understand myself these things and figure out myself what, how, and when.
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:31 AM   #9
luvs2gro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yper
I'm sorry. I know that there are always (in every forum there is) newbies who come and post a singular questions and expect a singular answer. I'm sorry for bothering you - you are not forced to give me a precise answer. Anyway, if I have motivation to become a good guitar player I will have to someday understand myself these things and figure out myself what, how, and when.


No no no, you are fine man! You have the will and determination to learn and you had a question so I am happy to answer it and I try my best to help. I just think it would be more convenient for everybody (including me :P .. ) if these threads/questions all went to one place instead of having a new thread for each separate question

sorry if i came off as rude or made you feel like a noob for asking a question. come on, we all start some where right? Personally I am thankful/grateful there is a site like this to help people like me and you. I am no expert my self, the only reason I know what I know is because I took a class on it. maybe take a music theory class if you go to school or if you aren't in one already... I had to take the same theory class 3 times before I started to get it (im a slow learner) and lets be honest no one becomes an expert theory guru over night. but once I started to understand it felt GREAT. if you have any more questions dont hesitate to ask
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:41 AM   #10
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If I was just presented with the chords E, F, G I'd approach it as being in the key of G major. However I currently play a song that has these chords as the bridge, the rest of the song being in G major so I may be biased.

Id also expect more chords in the song somewhere, like an Am (which would make the answer to this thread super easy).

If in fact it is in E major I support the phrygian scale approach noted above, but know that this will not help further your understanding of music theory in any way TS.

TS, if I played E, F, G, Am, what key is this in, and what scale would I use and why?
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:31 AM   #11
Yper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvs2gro
No no no, you are fine man! You have the will and determination to learn and you had a question so I am happy to answer it and I try my best to help. I just think it would be more convenient for everybody (including me :P .. ) if these threads/questions all went to one place instead of having a new thread for each separate question

sorry if i came off as rude or made you feel like a noob for asking a question. come on, we all start some where right? Personally I am thankful/grateful there is a site like this to help people like me and you. I am no expert my self, the only reason I know what I know is because I took a class on it. maybe take a music theory class if you go to school or if you aren't in one already... I had to take the same theory class 3 times before I started to get it (im a slow learner) and lets be honest no one becomes an expert theory guru over night. but once I started to understand it felt GREAT. if you have any more questions dont hesitate to ask


Thank you extremely much for taking of your personal time to write such an elaborate answer! I will analyze it this evening
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:44 AM   #12
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When I learned some jazz from Bert Ligon (he wrote a few theory books) he taught me to improvise over chord tones and melodic tones rather than using scales. I still use this method of playing and it has never failed me once. Ditch scales and embellish chord tones instead. I swear to God you'd play better.
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:00 PM   #13
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start on E phygian dominant, modulate to the F mixolydian (#9) scale, run up to the G and go down a Gsus4add13 arpeggio and finish with a backflip through a ring of fire
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Old 05-06-2013, 04:24 PM   #14
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TS, you need to start thinking more about the sounds you are making with your guitar. Music is about sound so start thinking in sound. At least try to think in sound.

So learn the intervals and learn the sound of a scale and how different notes in a scale sound like. If you want to improvise well, you need to know what you are doing. Good guitarists don't play random notes and hope for the best result. They don't just pick a scale and start noodling with it. They know how every note they play will sound like.

You won't be able to do it instantly but start working on your ear.
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Last edited by MaggaraMarine : 05-06-2013 at 04:25 PM.
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