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Old 05-09-2013, 12:47 AM   #1
Hardlycore
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No-tempo practice?

So I keep coming across this practice technique, but I can't seem to find where anyone goes into detail about it. Any one wanna explain what it is for me?
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:53 AM   #2
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Basically it's practising without a tempo. Sometimes, even when you do things very slowly, you will have certain bad habits occur. During "No-tempo" practice you work on eliminating those bad habits by going as slow as you need to for every note, whether in time or not.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:35 AM   #3
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Hmm... That seems kind of counter-productive. It seems like that would give you bad timing, but I can also understand using it to eliminate bad habits. I might try it here and there and see what comes from it.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:46 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freepower
Basically it's practising without a tempo. Sometimes, even when you do things very slowly, you will have certain bad habits occur. During "No-tempo" practice you work on eliminating those bad habits by going as slow as you need to for every note, whether in time or not.



Not to be a smart ass, but doesn't that still have a tempo? A really slow one sure.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:59 AM   #5
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the no-tempo thing seems alot like guitar meditation, and boring as hell lol...watched a video of a guy playing "stairway to heaven" dude took 10 seconds to go to the next note, felt like falling asleep. Think if I practiced the no-tempo method, i'd stop 1/4 the way through and end up taking a nap. Think dropping the tempo down to half the BPM is good enough for me.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:31 PM   #6
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Haha I saw that video. And no joke dude, there's been a couple of times where I practiced really slow like that and took a nap afterwards. hahaha
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:34 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Hardlycore
Hmm... That seems kind of counter-productive. It seems like that would give you bad timing, but I can also understand using it to eliminate bad habits. I might try it here and there and see what comes from it.


Counter productive is practising with a metronome when you are not really great technique wise.That basically makes you good at making...mistakes.No tempo helps you concentrate on what really matters...relaxation,finger independence,economy of motion etc etc etc.A metronome does nothing for your technique,only for your timing.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowofravenwo
Not to be a smart ass, but doesn't that still have a tempo? A really slow one sure.


Well yes and no, I guess you could say it has a tempo in that there is probably an identifiable tempo between any two sounds but the point is that everything takes exactly as long as it needs so it's likely to be hugely inconsistent.

As much as anything else, the "no tempo" moniker is to emphasis that there's no metronome and speed is the furthest thing from what is trying to be achieved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltTheWerewolf
the no-tempo thing seems alot like guitar meditation, and boring as hell lol...watched a video of a guy playing "stairway to heaven" dude took 10 seconds to go to the next note, felt like falling asleep. Think if I practiced the no-tempo method, i'd stop 1/4 the way through and end up taking a nap. Think dropping the tempo down to half the BPM is good enough for me.


It's not meant to be watched but if it's boring while you're doing it then you're not thinking nearly enough. The whole point of doing it is so that you can focus with absolute clarity on every aspect of what you're doing without having anything to distract you. I suppose in that fashion it is somewhat like meditation but then that's an internal thing as well; no one is really supposed to see it and if they do it doesn't matter.
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamdancer11
Counter productive is practising with a metronome when you are not really great technique wise.That basically makes you good at making...mistakes.No tempo helps you concentrate on what really matters...relaxation,finger independence,economy of motion etc etc etc.A metronome does nothing for your technique,only for your timing.


Yeah, I tried out a little no-tempo practice today and saw instant improvement. My fingers moved more precisely and it just felt much more natural. I'll definitely be doing more of it.

But, how often should a player practice with no-tempo? I was starting off with it, then going to a slow tempo > Medium> Then finally fast tempo. Should I do it last or does it not matter?

And that's probably the first time I've heard someone say a metronome doesn't help your technique. :p
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:47 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Hardlycore
But, how often should a player practice with no-tempo? I was starting off with it, then going to a slow tempo > Medium> Then finally fast tempo. Should I do it last or does it not matter?


For my money it depends on what you're doing. I separate "practice" from "learning". Practice I generally do as a no-tempo thing; work exclusively on things I know I'm not good at, areas of my technique that are weak and so on. Learning follows the standard metronome thing and is something I do to learn songs or licks.
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod_Beeblebr
For my money it depends on what you're doing. I separate "practice" from "learning". Practice I generally do as a no-tempo thing; work exclusively on things I know I'm not good at, areas of my technique that are weak and so on. Learning follows the standard metronome thing and is something I do to learn songs or licks.


Makes sense. Do you use no-tempo as a standard, everday practice, or is it every now and then when you feel you need to work a certain flaw?
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:01 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Hardlycore
So I keep coming across this practice technique, but I can't seem to find where anyone goes into detail about it. Any one wanna explain what it is for me?


Search "Jamie Andreas guitar principles" on youtube. She wrote a book and made a video when she was he.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:02 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Hardlycore
Makes sense. Do you use no-tempo as a standard, everday practice, or is it every now and then when you feel you need to work a certain flaw?


I don't have the time like I used to for practice so most of the time these days I try and focus on learning songs for my band, trying to write material and all that.

That said, if I did have the time to practice a lot every day I would definitely make no-tempo a pretty big part of what I do; maybe half an hour to an hour depending on how much time you have to actually practice should be enough to make noticeable improvements in what you do.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiggedy
Search "Jamie Andreas guitar principles" on youtube. She wrote a book and made a video when she was he.


I have, in fact I think that was the first place I heard about it. But everywhere I read about it, she (hopefully) just mentioned it and didn't explain the technique. I'm sure it's described in full in her book.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod_Beeblebr
I don't have the time like I used to for practice so most of the time these days I try and focus on learning songs for my band, trying to write material and all that.

That said, if I did have the time to practice a lot every day I would definitely make no-tempo a pretty big part of what I do; maybe half an hour to an hour depending on how much time you have to actually practice should be enough to make noticeable improvements in what you do.


Okay awesome man, I appreciate the helpful input! I'm definitely going to use it regularly, because I like what came from it today.
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Old 05-10-2013, 05:54 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Shadowofravenwo
Not to be a smart ass, but doesn't that still have a tempo? A really slow one sure.


Nope, if you're playing at a tempo, there is a time the next note MUST arrive at. When you play no tempo, you MUST execute the movements correctly, regardless of the timing. The priorities are switched.

Quote:
But, how often should a player practice with no-tempo? I was starting off with it, then going to a slow tempo > Medium> Then finally fast tempo. Should I do it last or does it not matter?


As often as you need to - no tempo practice is awesome for correcting old bad habits, eliminating tension, improving economy of motion... all the fine optimisation of technique.

On the other hand, it's useless for timekeeping, ear training and learning easy tunes.

In short, it's a practice tool. What you asked is kind of like asking a carpenter how often you should use a saw.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:58 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by flissful
I don't find it very helpful. I only ever use it when I'm still learning how a section goes, and therefore can't keep to a steady beat... Personally I think metronomes are much more useful


I'm exactly the same way. I only DON'T use one when I'm just first learning the material.
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Old 05-11-2013, 05:39 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Fallenoath
I'm exactly the same way. I only DON'T use one when I'm just first learning the material.



i have been playing for the last 2 years, i learned most of the stuff from youtube, its a great source. but i think now i need professional help

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Old 05-11-2013, 06:48 AM   #19
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I'd personally recommend it. I learn most of my stuff by no tempo practice. The only time i really use a metronome is when i am working on sight reading.

But everyone is different, i don't practice with a metronome that much and some of my friends practice exclusively with metronomes. It's what works for you.
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:43 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Sickz
I'd personally recommend it. I learn most of my stuff by no tempo practice. The only time i really use a metronome is when i am working on sight reading.

But everyone is different, i don't practice with a metronome that much and some of my friends practice exclusively with metronomes. It's what works for you.


I fully understand. I think I've been brought up being taught to always practice with a metronome, so it seemed a little weird to me at first. But I'm always open for new things.

Since I posted this I've been using a combo of metronome and no tempo practice, and I'm seeing improvements. So I have no complaints. :p
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