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Old 06-13-2013, 02:36 PM   #41
Cavalcade
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First, I take back what I said about there not being any oversight. We can rate articles.
And really, that's it.
An "article approval queue" like TPA would be a bad idea (how many tabs in TPA ever get approved/denied? the place is a ghost town), but how come it's okay to have a million identical sweeping lessons, while some poor newbie gets dogpiled for making a 54th crappy tab for "Smells Like Teen Spirit"? What difference is there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydra150
Not entirely related to the topic at hand, but I've said this in the comments section of a few lessons which had taught dubious music theory - music theory articles should be read over by someone who knows what they're talking about before they're posted onto the front page.

I don't have much else to add to that.
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Originally Posted by Hydra150
Obviously that idea is not relevant to articles posted by the likes of Tom Hess and other professionals, some of whom reek of arrogance, but more for the regular UGer who wants to contribute.

Here's the thing you just reminded me of: articles and lessons are a great way for people to give back to UG, if they learned basically everything off the Internet (hi there!). But only if they're useful. The tab section is pretty well covered, and people can just learn from ear, but a good lesson or insightful article is something you can't transcribe.
I wrote some tabs for lesser-known bands I like that needed decent tabs, then Tab Pro happened and I just gave up. (Hey UG team, if you're reading this, what's taking you so long to give us credit on TP, again?) Articles would be a great way to give back; I'd love to help people learn by ear. But with the state they're in right now, it's a mix of well-intentioned, but flawed newbie articles, and teasers from people who want your money.
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:51 PM   #42
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You know, honestly I've thought about paying for a membership here, considering that I do get some utility out of this site. But if they're letting shit like that go? Uh-uh, nope, sorry. If Tom Hess is still writing his reeking adverts and getting them published here, I don't think I am.
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:16 PM   #43
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We should vote democratically.

If this is not allowed I will post articles about how this forum is a bad teaching place, with reference to Tom Hess. This would be totally accepatblle, since it would be support to his article.

Don't be hypocritical and make the right choise regardless of my faulty argument.
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:39 PM   #44
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Just so everybody knows, the forum mods/CCs have been discussing article standards with the Russians and we're taking your criticisms into account.

Thanks guys
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:47 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lolmnt
Just so everybody knows, the forum mods/CCs have been discussing article standards with the Russians and we're taking your criticisms into account.

Thanks guys

Oh, cool. Thanks. While we're here, any word on getting Tab Pro to say who wrote the tabs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxdarrenxx
We should vote democratically.

If this is not allowed I will post articles about how this forum is a bad teaching place, with reference to Tom Hess. This would be totally accepatblle, since it would be support to his article.

Don't be hypocritical and make the right choise regardless of my faulty argument.

The problem with that is that if it turns out like the way we vote on tabs, nothing will get approved by users, and mods will have to approve them instead, which brings us back to square one. If people can't even turn down the fifth version of a tab, do you think they'll turn down a redundant lesson?
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:05 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalcade
Oh, cool. Thanks. While we're here, any word on getting Tab Pro to say who wrote the tabs?

The problem with that is that if it turns out like the way we vote on tabs, nothing will get approved by users, and mods will have to approve them instead, which brings us back to square one. If people can't even turn down the fifth version of a tab, do you think they'll turn down a redundant lesson?



Well I believe that people on UG know when something is garbage most of the time. Maybe at least hide the lesson from the front page.

Articles about bands are downvoted due to bandwagonery, but they are just articles.

This article sprouts facts by argumentum ad populous that there are an immense lot of bad guitar teachers.

I'd like to add an anecdote; Steve Vai and Kirk Hammet are taught by satriani privately, and Satriani literally said that he'd learn stuff himself while he taught, just barely being in front of his students.

I'd say they turned out pretty okay.
I think
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:12 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxdarrenxx
Well I believe that people on UG know when something is garbage most of the time. Maybe at least hide the lesson from the front page.

Articles about bands are downvoted due to bandwagonery, but they are just articles.

This article sprouts facts by argumentum ad populous that there are an immense lot of bad guitar teachers.

I'd like to add an anecdote; Steve Vai and Kirk Hammet are taught by satriani privately, and Satriani literally said that he'd learn stuff himself while he taught, just barely being in front of his students.

I'd say they turned out pretty okay.
I think

Using Tabs Pending Approval as a case study, the problem isn't that people don't vote correctly. The problem is that people don't vote.
I just had to jump in and take a look at a good tab for the new Amon Amarth song, and give it an approve, because it had been sitting in there for a few days, and the guy PMed me and he's great (<3 u sam_b, no homo). Amon Amarth isn't a local band playing shitty bar gigs. They have thousands of people talking about their new album on Facebook (where nobody wants to hear how psyched you are for a new album), and it isn't even out. And still, no votes on a tab for the single for two whole days. See for yourself; how many of the tabs have any votes, approve or deny?
If users don't approve or deny tabs/lessons/articles, the mods do. And that's what happens right now.
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Old 06-19-2013, 04:20 PM   #48
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Hi all,
Here's an update on the situation.
Given Tom Hess' previous abuse of our system, and because he made several shill accounts to do so, he's been banned forever from the forums and comments.
However, since articles may be submitted by email, it is possible that you may see other articles from him in the future. They will not be the same promotional articles, though.

We've talked with the articles and content editors, and they've agreed to be much more discerning in the kind of content that is allowed on the articles. Articles that serve primarily as self-promotion, or that link too heavily to the author's site, will be declined or the links pared down. Something really important that came up when we were talking with content admins is that we don't have enough good content to work with; to this end, please consider writing and submitting articles. The more good content we have, the easier it will become to decline lesser articles.

Thanks for your patience on this issue. I think the new article policies are going to be much better. If you're interested, here are the specific actions that the editorial staff have committed to:
Quote:
- Double-check the content which we receive for Lessons and Columns
- Throw out obvious infomercials
- If an article is more or less informerical, but still contains valuable info, reduce the advertising aspect only to a small sentence with single link to author's resource
- Contact talented UG writers (if their articles are being really enjoyed by audience) for closer collaboration
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Old 06-19-2013, 04:39 PM   #49
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I really have to applaud UG for the way the administration handled this issue. Thank you very much for listening to the users.
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Old 06-19-2013, 04:54 PM   #50
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Thanks for the update. I can't congratulate UG enough on how well they handled this issue. Thanks, guys!
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Old 06-19-2013, 05:09 PM   #51
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Cool! Tired of seeing those infomercial-esque "lessons"
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Old 06-19-2013, 05:28 PM   #52
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Thanks for the update. Good to know that Mr. Hess has been put in his place
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:23 PM   #53
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It may be worth posting an announcement in the musician based forums asking for more articles, not everyone in the forums pokes their head in here.
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:30 PM   #54
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:13 PM   #55
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:19 AM   #56
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As one of the more regular article writers here at UG, can I make a couple of requests in light of this?

Firstly, can UG publish a precise set of article guidelines for contributors? I know there are already some guidelines, but what we need are some very specific instructions on:

-what can be linked to
-precisely how many links per article are permitted to:
a) the author's own site
b) other UG articles the author has written in the past
c) links to third party sites
d) where images etc should be hosted and how to link to them
-what constitutes too much self-promotion/sales
-what is/isn't ok in an "about the author" section

That way I, and other contributors, will be able to get articles right first time out, reducing the workload on the moderators and getting better quality articles out there.

Secondly, if a submitted article doesn't match up with the policy, please could it be rejected and sent back to the contributor rather than put up in edited form. Once or twice I've had articles put up in an edited form that stopped the article from making sense or being as useful as it could be. I would much rather take an article back and submit a new version that complied with the rules than have a broken article end up on the front page, and I'm sure that UG's readers would too.

Last edited by James Scott : 06-20-2013 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:57 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc8995
Given Tom Hess' previous abuse of our system, and because he made several shill accounts to do so, he's been banned forever from the forums and comments.
However, since articles may be submitted by email, it is possible that you may see other articles from him in the future. They will not be the same promotional articles, though.

Using multis to make himself look better? This guy's a $1k/month guitar teacher, and he's in one of the world's biggest power metal bokay, fine, enough about that
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc8995
Something really important that came up when we were talking with content admins is that we don't have enough good content to work with; to this end, please consider writing and submitting articles. The more good content we have, the easier it will become to decline lesser articles.

First off, thanks for taking a look at the articles. The problem with the lack of articles (which I'm going to make more of) is that most people come here for the tabs, which means to give back, they write tabs. Maybe pick a few really good articles (including ones that have already been written) as a sort of "spotlight"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Scott
Secondly, if a submitted article doesn't match up with the policy, please could it be rejected and sent back to the contributor rather than put up in edited form. Once or twice I've had articles put up in an edited form that stopped the article from making sense or being as useful as it could be. I would much rather take an article back and submit a new version that complied with the rules than have a broken article end up on the front page, and I'm sure that UG's readers would too.

We actually have a forum where people are supposed to post contributions first, and get feedback and editing. The problem is, once again, nobody actually does, making it useless.
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Old 09-02-2013, 08:36 AM   #58
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I can't believe Hess is being discussed is such a casual manner, despite whatever guitar skills he may have had, he was number 2 in the 3rd Reich - a biggot, antisemite and political zealot. Even Hitler hated him in the end.......

Oh, wrong Hess, or wrong forum. I apologise. Ah...you're talking about the guy who looks like a cross between a cue ball and a badly kept vagina.

I had been playing on and off for about 24 years, but more off than on. I was totally in a rut playing wise and had become a one trick pony. I decided to launch headlong into improving my technique and learning much needed theory. One of the techniques that interested me since hearing Jason Becker in the 80s was sweep picking, I googled it and Tom Hess came up. I liked part of the little intro lesson, but soon the selling started. His sales technique is somewhere between that of a missionary selling god and multi-level marketing executive (read: guy somewhere near the bottom of a pyramid scheme). I was instantly put off, there was something very sleazy which made me feel like I was watching amateur hour on the shopping channel.

Because his technique looked clean enough I found his "lessons" here and was amazed that he used the same "I am the one true prophet" lines here. The fact that he has some apostles (they're here too) who have obviously invested so much in him that they continue to "spread the good news" in the hope of recovering their costs through their own schools is also more than a little creepy.

When I read his article about teachers that was the icing on the cakeThere is no substitute for a good local teacher or friend who can teach when starting off. As someone who is always busy and grabs practice sessions when time is available I found some of the lessons here and the Lick Library (despite the name sounding like a girl on girl one handed entertainment site) with amazing teachers like Andy James excellent sources for the knowledge I crave.

As for Hess, his presence only serves to cheapen an otherwise great resource. Wonder if he suffers much teasing because of his name. Reminds me of a character from a TV show called Bottom introducing himself to a landlord:

Landlord: "Did you say your surname was Hitler? Any Relation?"
Eddy : "Well yes actually, it's quite an interesting story..."

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Old 09-02-2013, 09:06 AM   #59
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Old 09-03-2013, 01:57 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc8995
Hi all,
Here's an update on the situation.
Given Tom Hess' previous abuse of our system, and because he made several shill accounts to do so, he's been banned forever from the forums and comments.
However, since articles may be submitted by email, it is possible that you may see other articles from him in the future. They will not be the same promotional articles, though.

We've talked with the articles and content editors, and they've agreed to be much more discerning in the kind of content that is allowed on the articles. Articles that serve primarily as self-promotion, or that link too heavily to the author's site, will be declined or the links pared down. Something really important that came up when we were talking with content admins is that we don't have enough good content to work with; to this end, please consider writing and submitting articles. The more good content we have, the easier it will become to decline lesser articles.

Thanks for your patience on this issue. I think the new article policies are going to be much better. If you're interested, here are the specific actions that the editorial staff have committed to:


Until the annual new content editor is installed.

What worries me is that the debate on this had to be moved in to the CC area, when they're the ones most likely to have any sort of knowledge and experience of this. Credit to those who took the proactive approach, but Tom Hess on the front page has offended and put off a lot of casual browsers from not only the article sections but the whole site, and I have absolute confidence that he'll be popping up again. He's spent years marketing to anybody with their e-mail on their profile page as well.

Also, having read the comments of that article, good lad Hydra. Keep that skeptical spirit alive the next time a mode article pops up.
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