Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Music > Musician Talk
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 06-24-2013, 07:22 AM   #21
Jehannum
Registered Abuser
 
Jehannum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Birmingham, England
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotspurJr
It's a metaphor that is actually very useful.


Metaphors are seldom useful. They're often misleading for anything deeper than imparting a vague flavour of understanding.

In any case, how is this metaphor helpful if it's not immediately obvious what the hemispheres of the brain are supposed to function. You have to buy into the metaphor to understand it. You have to be told left is 'analytical' and right is 'creative' (or the other way round - I never can remember). Why not just say 'analytical' and 'creative'?

It's useless self-help Oprah-level garbage.

Before the left/right brain meme we already knew some people were more creative and some more analytical. All it did was add ostensible scientific underpinning to the already self-evident.
Jehannum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 07:59 AM   #22
metalmetalhead
Panterica
 
metalmetalhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: tn
plus your brain doesn't even work like that.
__________________
Its all fun and games till someone has to take a drug test

check out my youtube

http://www.youtube.com/user/stevenebowen
metalmetalhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 11:30 AM   #23
HotspurJr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jehannum
It's useless self-help Oprah-level garbage.


The success of Edwards' book says otherwise.

Quote:
Before the left/right brain meme we already knew some people were more creative and some more analytical. All it did was add ostensible scientific underpinning to the already self-evident.


Except that this isn't what the metaphor is telling us at all.

These are different ways of thinking that are available to all of us. We just have learn to access them.

Hard to know what else I should bother saying, since it's abundantly clear that you didn't read my first post, so I find it unlikely you'll read this one. So long as you think you have nothing to learn, you'll never learn anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
plus your brain doesn't even work like that.


This is irrelevant to the usefulness of the concept in practical terms.

Last edited by HotspurJr : 06-24-2013 at 11:32 AM.
HotspurJr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 12:57 PM   #24
macashmack
Maskcashmack
 
macashmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
The brain isn't like that at all why do people belief that right left brain shit.
macashmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 03:27 PM   #25
metalmetalhead
Panterica
 
metalmetalhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: tn
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotspurJr

This is irrelevant to the usefulness of the concept in practical terms.


well then, By simply making someone aware of the fact that you can think logically or creatively is successful.

It reminds me of my buddies trying to learn new finger exercises. When you can make any pattern you want. I say make up something, You say...I don't know how.

And theres the difference between the guitarist that makes up there own music. vs the guitarist that learns other musicians work.
__________________
Its all fun and games till someone has to take a drug test

check out my youtube

http://www.youtube.com/user/stevenebowen
metalmetalhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 04:07 PM   #26
Hail
kill both bass players
 
Hail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Dallas
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead

And theres the difference between the guitarist that makes up there own music. vs the guitarist that learns other musicians work.


it's more "the guitarist who reads tabs on the internet and tries to piece things together" and "the guitarist who internalizes other peoples' music and uses those influences to create their own sound"
Hail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 04:59 PM   #27
HotspurJr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
well then, By simply making someone aware of the fact that you can think logically or creatively is successful.


Why do people who don't understand a concept try to define it?

"Left-brained" and "right-brained" are different modalities of thinking.

It has very little to do with being "creative" or not. It has to do with the labeling/analyzing/compartmentalizing method of analysis, or the absence of that.

A lot of shredding, and certainly genres like mathcore, are very left-brain oriented. That doesn't mean they're not creative. Writing is a very left-brain activity, wheres my experience is that most of the music I play isn't.

I think that a lot of the endless discussions we get into around here about stuff like modes stems from people holding onto a left-brain approach in an area where it's not useful. A lot of us have done really well with a left-brained approach, and it's most of what we're taught in school, and it is a fantastic tool set. But we use it so much that we don't know how to turn it off.

And it turns out that turning it off also unleashes a powerful tool set, although it's a harder one to talk about or teach (because talking about something is bringing a left-brain approach to bear on the subject).

The first step to doing this is to STOP analyzing and breaking down and taking apart. In Edwards' book, it then becomes about looking in a more profound way than we usually look. In music, I think it's about listening in a more profound way than we usually listen, but that's something that's hard to do with an undeveloped ear.

It's not just saying "be more creative."
HotspurJr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 05:03 PM   #28
macashmack
Maskcashmack
 
macashmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
TS, if you can't write original music, it's b because you can't hear original pieces. Train you're ear.
macashmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 08:43 PM   #29
sysD
Registered User
 
sysD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: underground
i remember reading this study that suggested listening to what you're playing with one ear closed.
this supposedly engages the corresponding side of the brain to be more dominant in processing what you're hearing.

i tried using my left ear (plugging my right) when composing lines on the piano and it seemed to me that my right brain was more engaged (my progressions had more emotional depth).

however, this is purely anecdotal and i could be full of shit
__________________
sigless
sysD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 12:58 AM   #30
sweetdude3000
Registered User
 
sweetdude3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by macashmack
TS, if you can't write original music, it's b because you can't hear original pieces. Train you're ear.


Exactly.

You can be very analytical and very creative too. The master composers were/are these types of people. You can be very visually creative and not musically creative.. There are different types of creativity anyhow - inventors, mathematicians, writers. It's not an either/or phenomenon.
sweetdude3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 12:37 AM   #31
Xiaoxi
Registered Luser
 
Xiaoxi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: libtard Maryland
The greatest masterpieces in music have indisputable logic, control, and economy, on top of creativity and taste.
__________________
asdf
Xiaoxi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 07:49 AM   #32
metalmetalhead
Panterica
 
metalmetalhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: tn
Quote:
Why do people who don't understand a concept try to define it?

"Left-brained" and "right-brained" are different modalities of thinking.

It has very little to do with being "creative" or not. It has to do with the labeling/analyzing/compartmentalizing method of analysis, or the absence of that.

A lot of shredding, and certainly genres like mathcore, are very left-brain oriented. That doesn't mean they're not creative. Writing is a very left-brain activity, wheres my experience is that most of the music I play isn't.

I think that a lot of the endless discussions we get into around here about stuff like modes stems from people holding onto a left-brain approach in an area where it's not useful. A lot of us have done really well with a left-brained approach, and it's most of what we're taught in school, and it is a fantastic tool set. But we use it so much that we don't know how to turn it off.

And it turns out that turning it off also unleashes a powerful tool set, although it's a harder one to talk about or teach (because talking about something is bringing a left-brain approach to bear on the subject).

The first step to doing this is to STOP analyzing and breaking down and taking apart. In Edwards' book, it then becomes about looking in a more profound way than we usually look. In music, I think it's about listening in a more profound way than we usually listen, but that's something that's hard to do with an undeveloped ear.

It's not just saying "be more creative."


Thats deep man. I just want you to know, regardless of what I think. Your on to something BIG!

But I have to disagree somewhere. It has alot to do with being creative or technical. (both are useful). This is what it all boils down too. Because this is different thinking modalities. Parables are useful. I don't disagree with the topic, Ive never read that book.

It doesn't matter what you think, its how you think. Thats why I disagree with this, I think the musician should be able to figure it out him/herself without having to read a philology book. Right and left should be 1.

I don't think I enjoy math metal. To me that just seems like it would be more technical am I right?

Listening more intestinally is not enough. You have to train your ear this is a trial and error process. You can remind yourself to focus your contentiousness's on whatever it is you want. but this is only half the battle. and your brain probably remembers the tune pretty well anyway.

Before you go all out on a new post just remember what the ts said, " I fear I am to left brained to write original music"

I just don't agree to thinking like this because. theres nothing you can sing that cant be sung. theres nothing you can say that cant be done. Its easy.

Quote:
it's more "the guitarist who reads tabs on the Internet and tries to piece things together" and "the guitarist who internalizes other peoples' music and uses those influences to create their own sound


yea thats another way of putting it. but theres alot of successful cover artist around.
__________________
Its all fun and games till someone has to take a drug test

check out my youtube

http://www.youtube.com/user/stevenebowen
metalmetalhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:59 PM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.