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Old 06-22-2013, 05:42 AM   #1
ibanez1511
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help identifying a tetrachord.

Please can someone help me identify the following tetrachord?

C,D,Eb,F# (tone,semitone,tone and Semitone together.)

At the moment the best i can think of is Minor Harmonic.
Thank you !
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Old 06-22-2013, 09:29 AM   #2
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Only on a guitar forum would someone think a tetrachord is actually a chord.

TS, that tetrachord would be found in harmonic minor. It could also be part of some synthetic scale. Depends on the context.
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Old 06-22-2013, 09:55 AM   #3
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it could also be found in an octatonic scale or the altered scale, it would depend on the harmony.
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Old 06-22-2013, 10:24 AM   #4
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by tetrachord you mean half of a scale? If it's the first half, it's C minor #11 13 . If it's the second half of a scale, it's G harmonic minor.
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Old 06-22-2013, 01:38 PM   #5
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I would say it's most likely the upper tetrachord of G harmonic minor.
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Old 06-22-2013, 08:32 PM   #6
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Doesn't a tetra-chord only work for the major scale?
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:26 AM   #7
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Thank you all for your responses.
At the moment I know the common names for a major tetrachord, a minor tetrachord. a phyrgian tetrachord a lydian tetrachord and a harmonic tetrachord. I am unable to find a widely recoginzed name for the bottom half of the double harmonic minor scale , or the hungarian minor scale as i believe it is also known by ?

so with a harmonic minor scale would describe the bottom half as a minor tetrachord and the top half as a harmonic tetrachord. with a whole tone gap between them.
But with the double harmonic minor the top half seems to stay harmonic but the bottom half , I have been unable to find a commonly used name.

Minor harmonic makes sense to me. But if anyone is aware of another more widely accepted name , i would welcome any help.
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:28 AM   #8
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So :
intervals of the double harmonic minor scale:
1,2,b3,#4,5,b6,7,8

(5 b6,7,8) being the harmonic tetra chord and
(1,2,b3,#4) being the unknown tetrachord with which i would like some help.
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Old 06-23-2013, 09:59 AM   #9
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Tetrachords aren't really a functional category for analysis of anything. It literally just means 4 notes in a row. I would not waste time trying to identify, classify, or use them.
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Old 06-23-2013, 03:09 PM   #10
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Holy cow. I do believe that I have never seen a more useless musical endeavor. You in no way need to name/classify/ or even identify any tetrachord ever. They're just parts of scales. Learn the scales and make actual music with them. What could possibly be the benefit of doing what you're doing?
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Old 06-23-2013, 03:43 PM   #11
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I have been using them to understand finger patterns on the guitar. And also some of symmetry they produce.
I have pdf file of what i have been writing about 12 pages so far, which you are welcome to look at if you wish ?



Today I was thinking of joining them together with only a semitone distance between the two.

With two major tetrachords this gives us :

1,2,3,4b5,b6,b7,7 which is a pretty unusual scale it it's own right, but as i have started join other tetrachords in a similar fashion i have found cycles of notes that cover two octave, and can create very unusual music effects.
As I love the idea of a two major triads a tritone apart, and this seems like a natural progression of this.

Last edited by ibanez1511 : 06-23-2013 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:17 PM   #12
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"cycles of notes that cover two octaves" = arpeggios.

If you just sit down and learn your scales and chords your "tetrachord" stuff will make a lot more sense.

Last edited by cdgraves : 06-23-2013 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:14 PM   #13
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I see what you're going for Ibanez. However, tetrachords are most commonly used within the context of an already existing scale, not to create a new scale.
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Old 06-23-2013, 08:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgraves
"cycles of notes that cover two octaves" = arpeggios.

Not really.
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Old 06-23-2013, 08:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angusman60
I see what you're going for Ibanez. However, tetrachords are most commonly used within the context of an already existing scale, not to create a new scale.


meh, at least he's not running up and down shapes and he's exploring his intervals a little bit. i won't say it's the best method, but at least he's showing some curiosity and having fun with it

but yeah cdg and angus are right
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amonamarthmetal
Not really.


Think about this for a second... it's not a scale if you skip the tonic every other octave. That's just putting notes in non-scalar order, hence, an arpeggio.
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Old 06-24-2013, 12:58 PM   #17
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Well, yeah, but it doesn't HAVE to span two octaves. That's just common practice in piano technique.
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:38 PM   #18
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You could call it a C diminished triad add 2- I can't say I've ever encountered this chord.

However, you can see it as a D7 flat 9 with no 5th. If you add in A the it's a Dom7 flat 9.

D7 Flat9 (no 5th)

--11-- Eb
-------
--11-- Gb(F#)
--10-- C
-------
--10-- D


D7 Flat9

--11-- Eb
--10-- A
--11-- Gb(F#)
--10-- C
-------
--10-- D

If you're looking for a musical use for it in relation to playing over a chord- which your post suggested- D7 flat9 should work pretty well. It's a fairly common jazz chord too

Pat Martino has got this whole thing about diving the guitar into 4 sets of flat 3rds (diminished arpeggio) or 3 sets of Major 3rds (Augmented arpeggio) to create the octave. It gets more complicated, because he also mutates these scales to get other chords, shapes, scales etc.

The basic principle (if I remember rightly) was to do with symmetry within the octave, this might be worth a look? Hes definitely got a few videos about it kicking about, I believe he called it 'Sacred Geometry'.
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Old 06-24-2013, 07:03 PM   #19
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Hi angus and Cdg, Thank you for the tips.
You are right that learning scales and chords is a good place to gain solid foundation.
And I am not sure of the traditional use of tetrachords.
Jb, It took me a while to realise you was responding to the initial post i made.

So C,D,Eb and F# would be b7,1,b9,3 I can understand this choice of intervals, especially when they are used on their own.

I have gone with naming the a
'minor harmonic tetrachord', as this best describes them as the lower half of the double harmonic minor scale.

if it is okay? for reference i would like to share a link to a png file of this tetrachord stacked in tritones !
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...&type=1&theater
One of books that has inspired me recently is called 'the rest is noise.' it talks about classical composers stacking block of notes or arpeggios in what i believe
to a similar way.
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:51 PM   #20
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Tetrachords aren't really a thing you "use", traditionally. Your use of them is more of a serialist approach, which is novel and interesting, but is also very far removed from traditional harmony and melody. Taking a set of intervals and repeating them at various pitches is a common compositional technique in modern classical music.
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