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Old 07-09-2013, 01:35 PM   #1
Duaneclapdrix
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Composition Challenge: Making the Most of What You've Got

OK. Sorry for the confusion. I'm going to to try to make this as clear as possible.

You will be composing two pieces of music

Part 1: Start by coming up with a theme or a motive or four bars of something. Proceed to write a piece of music based off that idea.

Part 2: Using the same theme/motive four bars, write an entirely different piece of music that makes just as much musical sense as the first piece you composed.

There are no formal restrictions, although I suggest ternary form because it's a good way to deal with the problem of digression and return.

Here's an example of what I mean using ternary form.

s= same section
d=different section and different transitions.

A B A'
sA dB dA'

The A sections don't have to be exactly the same. Just similar enough that we can tell they bwere clearly based off of the same idea.

If you're lazy/don't have a ton of time, you can take a previous piece you've written and use that as your starting point to write your second piece. Post both pieces at the end so we can see the difference. If you feel like it, writing about you thought process during composition would be appreciated.

Deadline: August 15th

Participants (in non alphabetical order):
evolucian
Duanecalpdrix
Stalk027
Neitsche
chronic_stp
505088K
Xiaoxi
Mathedes
Livingtime
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Last edited by Duaneclapdrix : 07-23-2013 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 07-09-2013, 01:53 PM   #2
evolucian
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I.... don't understand. Maybe cos its Monday
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Old 07-09-2013, 01:57 PM   #3
TDKshorty
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So a remix basically?


Or, for example, if you had something like The Star Spangle Banner or Over The Rainbow or whatever, and the first four bars are pretty recognizable, but after the first four bars you just somewhere completely different.

Utilizing our abilities to take an idea and make to completely different pieces out of one idea?
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Old 07-09-2013, 01:59 PM   #4
GoldenGuitar
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It'd be more interesting if there were a universal 4 bars that everybody participating in this challenge had to use.
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:10 PM   #5
TDKshorty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenGuitar
It'd be more interesting if there were a universal 4 bars that everybody participating in this challenge had to use.

Yeah, this seems more fun
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:46 PM   #6
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I lovelovelovelovelovelove this idea. I agree that maybe there should be the same starting point for everyone to jump off from. Just a skeletal idea though, like a four bar melody without any kind of harmonic underlay or anything else so people can really take off from it in any number of directions.

I'll probably be unable to participate, but I might be able to do something if it gets off the ground.
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz_rock_feel
I lovelovelovelovelovelove this idea. I agree that maybe there should be the same starting point for everyone to jump off from. Just a skeletal idea though, like a four bar melody without any kind of harmonic underlay or anything else so people can really take off from it in any number of directions.

I'll probably be unable to participate, but I might be able to do something if it gets off the ground.


Agreed, I'll totally do it if we did that. I'm really not clear on what the OP wanted lol
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:50 PM   #8
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I think he was saying, write a song, take the first four bars, and use them to write a different song and compare how different they are. However, a competition where the first four bars are the same for everyone would be so much better, as if everyone could come up with their own melodies, their entry would only be as good as their starting melody.
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestialGuitar
I think he was saying, write a song, take the first four bars, and use them to write a different song and compare how different they are. However, a competition where the first four bars are the same for everyone would be so much better, as if everyone could come up with their own melodies, their entry would only be as good as their starting melody.

Yeah that's kind of what he was saying and I actually think that would be a better exercise (by the way, it's a challenge, not a competition, no one wins, no one's competing). The idea is that you come up with four bars worth of material and have to use it and develop it in two different ways. This was kind of the same idea as my (failed) idea for the ABA' challenge, just that in mine you took material and rehashed it in the same piece.

The real problem with this idea is participation. It's hard enough to get people to write one piece, never mind two, which is why adjusting it to be everyone writes a piece off the same material might get more people into it.
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:00 PM   #10
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That sounds awesome. I'd love to participate to some contest like this.
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:14 PM   #11
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JRF and Celestialguitar have it right. I meant that you would write two different pieces based off the same idea. I often come up with four bars of something that I really like and then get stuck. The point of the challenge is to hone your ability to see musical possibilities so you don't get stuck as often.

How would we choose which four bars to use if we all wanted to use the same beginning?
We have a resident atonalist, I'm trying to mess around with jazz and extended tonality or whatever and we have some classical guys. It seems like finding one idea to use for everybody would be difficult. The principles of development and musical coherence are valuable to practice no matter what the style is, and I think people would be more invested in their pieces if they wrote their own melodies.
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:31 PM   #12
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dun dun dun daaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duaneclapdrix
JRF and Celestialguitar have it right. I meant that you would write two different pieces based off the same idea. I often come up with four bars of something that I really like and then get stuck. The point of the challenge is to hone your ability to see musical possibilities so you don't get stuck as often.

How would we choose which four bars to use if we all wanted to use the same beginning?
We have a resident atonalist, I'm trying to mess around with jazz and extended tonality or whatever and we have some classical guys. It seems like finding one idea to use for everybody would be difficult. The principles of development and musical coherence are valuable to practice no matter what the style is, and I think people would be more invested in their pieces if they wrote their own melodies.

Ugh... The more you talk about it the more I think it's a really good idea. I still think it would be hard to get people involved though.
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:04 PM   #14
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Now its interesting... and I'll take part
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:08 PM   #15
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I just assumed the regular people would do it. Neitsche, Mathedas, Life is Brutal ect. If anyone else wants to that'd be great to. If they don't it's their loss

So sign up now folks. You don't want to lose out on this once in a lifetime opportunity.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:29 PM   #16
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I'll do it.

One question though, do the first four bars of each piece have to be exactly the same material, or can we have a looser relationship, like the first four bars of each piece containing the same melodic line reharmonised?
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:23 PM   #17
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This threat inspired my to write an encore piece with the same beginning as another piece in my concert reportoire.

This way the audience will think "oh he doesn't have more pieces memorised so he just plays the Bach again, lame." and then be surpised by some really weird stuff by me.

I'm most likely not going to be bothered to write it down in a way that you can read. (I have very bad handwriting) but I might make a video if I'm happy with the result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nietsche
I'll do it.

One question though, do the first four bars of each piece have to be exactly the same material, or can we have a looser relationship, like the first four bars of each piece containing the same melodic line reharmonised?


I'd say make it exactly the same. It's more fun that way imho. Theres no point in just writing a piece that sort of has a simular theme to another piece as that happens naturally already. To me, this is about the infinity of directions that the exact same beginning can lead to.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:30 PM   #18
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I'd like to join too. I just downloaded Musescore and am trying to get the hang of it. It's very different from other composition software I've tried, but Ill work on getting stuff Im working on in guitar pro over to musescore
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nietsche
I'll do it.

One question though, do the first four bars of each piece have to be exactly the same material, or can we have a looser relationship, like the first four bars of each piece containing the same melodic line reharmonised?


I don't think it would matter, as long as it's still based off of the same musical idea. The beginning doesn't have to be four bars either. Just make sure the A sections are recognizably derived from the same idea.
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:28 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duaneclapdrix
How would we choose which four bars to use if we all wanted to use the same beginning?
We have a resident atonalist, I'm trying to mess around with jazz and extended tonality or whatever and we have some classical guys. It seems like finding one idea to use for everybody would be difficult. The principles of development and musical coherence are valuable to practice no matter what the style is, and I think people would be more invested in their pieces if they wrote their own melodies.

I don't any problem here, you can take one idea and interpret in any idiom you want, it again depends on the skill of the composer. As things are now, I'm out.
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