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Old 07-10-2013, 10:24 AM   #1
psrj32
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My Bugera EXPLODED!!! What?

Well, I hate to say... you told me so!

Really though, I'm not entirely sure that this was the amp. May have been the power I was plugged into.

This past Saturday, I had an awesome gig at a local venue. I set up my Bugera 333xl, and flipped on the power (in standby mode.) I set up all of my pedals etc, got a beer, and waited around for 30-45 min. We did sound check, and the sound guy had me a little louder than I normally play. (Master at half, channel volume slightly over half.) Everything sounded great.

I then put the old Buger back in standby. We stood around for just over an hour or so drinking beers, waiting on a larger croud. Once we finally started playing, everything was perfect. About 5 or 6 songs in, we finished the song, I hit my tuner to check things out, and when I turned my tuner off, I had NO SOUND. Just like that.

Everything had power. Everything was hooked up correctly. The tubes were still glowing. After turning the amp off for a few minutes, upon turning it back on I had sound, just very quiet sound.

Luckily, I brought along my Marshall MG100HCFX to finish things up.

To add in, the venue was an older building. All of the outlets on the stage were the same circuit. They set me up like so: outler>powerstrip(with bass amp and other guitar amp)>extension cord>my power strip>amp. Kind of a ghetto power running, but it seemed to work.

Heres where it gets odd, and the reason im not sure there is an issue with the amp.

I got everything home at 2a.m. and went to bed. After work on Sunday I set everything back up, flipped on the amp and it works perfect. I let it sit in standby for an hour, played at STUPID high volumes for 3 hours and let it sit some more... no issues.

My questions are,

1. Could this have been a power issue at the venue?
2. Could my amp have over heated? Should I stick a fan behind it? (it was a little warm in the bar. The vents were quite warm to the touch.)
3. Could this be a potential tube issue?

(I'm looking for legitimate answers here, so please no fire extinguishers or "because its a Bugera.)
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:27 AM   #2
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you promised me explosions
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:33 AM   #3
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I told you so
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:34 AM   #4
Arby911
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Tube failure. It happens and it's not a nameplate problem. You should have had spares ready to go.
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:38 AM   #5
psrj32
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Yes, you did tell me so.

BUT, the amp obviously works ok now, and nothing changed other than it got to cool down.

Aside from this being a Bugera issue, keep in mind I am new to valve amplifiers.

The basis of this thread really had nothing to do with the Bugera, but figured its better to tell the story rather than have a bunch of questions later.

What I was truely asking is:

Can valve amps over heat?
Can poor power have a negative effect on valve amps?
If a tube were shorting out or something, could it kill your sound?
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:41 AM   #6
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Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't leaving amp in standby mode for extended periods a very bad idea? Didnt it wear tubes quite a lot or something?
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:45 AM   #7
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I haven't a clue. Any information you find on that topic is all contradictive.

How long to let valves warm up? I've read anywhere from 30sec to 5min.

Standby for extended periods? I've read everything from its better to just leave it on for the entire gig rather than to turn it on and off, and that its terrible and never use standby.

SO.. who can trust any of the info out there?
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:02 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby911
Tube failure. It happens and it's not a nameplate problem. You should have had spares ready to go.


Sorry, Arby911.. I must have skipped over your reply. Thank you.

What makes you say a tube failure?
If it is a tube issue, why is it working now?
Pre amp tube or power? I know there may be issues with the infinium technology, but none of the lights were on. (It only covers power tubes.)
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:11 AM   #9
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I've nothing but bad things about Bugera even from my amp trch who says they are junk. I have two Marshall JCM 900's from the late 1990's and have never changed the tubes and they sound great! I've left them on standby before for an hour or so and have never had a problem. I would look around for a used Marshall then have it checked out by an amp tech to make sure everything works right and buy two if you have the money, always good to have a back up.
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:20 AM   #10
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Jrocz, thank you for the advice. I have a solid state Marshall as a backup because its small, lightweight, and has a decent tone.

I plan to keep the bugera. Eventually it will just be a practice amp when I buy my egnater in a couple months.

That is why I haven't already retubed the bugera. The tubes are still under warranty, that is why I am trying to get some info to see if it could be a potential tube issue.
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:25 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psrj32
Can valve amps over heat?
Can poor power have a negative effect on valve amps?
If a tube were shorting out or something, could it kill your sound?

yes, yes they can
yes, yes it can
yes, yes it could


It is really hard to diagnose this stuff on the Internet man. Any number of things could have happened. Is this an Infinium model? I'd contact Bugera.


Edit: I had posted this and forgot to hit send. I see you have an Infinium model. If I had to guess, I'd say that the Infinium Technology computer chip that monitors your tubes went wonky and maybe thought there was a problem when there wasn't and shut down the tubes. Don't trust Infinium - it causes more harm than good.

Yes, we are talking about the power tubes.

If you have a warranty - use it.
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:27 AM   #12
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+311 to all that.

it could be a lot of things. it could be a solder joint connection somewhere that's affected by high heat? i'm no electrician but either way, it's not fun to lose sound on stage.

and yeah, where the hell is the explosion?
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaaZeus
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't leaving amp in standby mode for extended periods a very bad idea? Didnt it wear tubes quite a lot or something?

Yes, it's called cathode poisoning. That aside, tube amps sound best when they've been cooking for a bit (imho) and the tubes are nice and hot, the heaters don't generate nearly as much heat as the tubes actually running do so it's tonally good to have it off standby too.
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psrj32
Sorry, Arby911.. I must have skipped over your reply. Thank you.

What makes you say a tube failure?
If it is a tube issue, why is it working now?
Pre amp tube or power? I know there may be issues with the infinium technology, but none of the lights were on. (It only covers power tubes.)


Because of the symptoms you presented.

Because that happens sometimes, exact reason unavailable. (I could give you several possibilities, none of which would change the fact that I can't possibly know for sure...)

Could be either end.

Infinium is an imperfect technology (although I like the concept) and may or may not be the cause of your problem.

Just get a spare set of tubes, that's a standard loadout item if you're gigging with a tube amp.

Contrary to what you've read elsewhere, this is not a 'Bugera' problem per se.

Also note that at one time Vox was considered incredibly unreliable because of their flawed AC30 offering, but now they are considered a 'quality' brand. Most other manufacturers have similar stories (Yes Marshall fanboi's, I'm looking at you!) it's just that Bugera is the 'flavor of the month' to pick on and some of their employees have made incredibly stupid statements here and elsewhere that fueled the hate.

At their price point, they are hard to beat.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:25 PM   #15
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:24 PM   #16
psrj32
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Thank you guys, for the information. I would like to be able to pop it open and inspect solder joints etc. but am not sure if they have a sneaky way of knowing whether or not it has been opened.

I will talk to Bugera and see what they offer.

Sorry there wasn't actually an explosion, that was just my attempt at a bit of humor!
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:40 PM   #17
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I remember the old Marshall TSL amps had issues with heat, due to poor resistors or board quality or something like that. Reading the OP reminded me of it. I think when you buy a Bugera amp it's best to have an amp tech go through the insides just in case something wasn't put together properly or loosely. Also keep a spare set of preamp tubes around. And leaving the amp in standby mode for over a year on every single day for 2hrs is bad for the power tubes(cathode poisoning). Modern power tubes(aside from SED) wear out a lot quicker if gigging at stage/drummer volumes, so cathode poisoning would be the least of your worries I'd say.
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:43 PM   #18
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This is an explosion.




Your amp did this:



Hope you get it sorted buddy
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby911
Tube failure. It happens and it's not a nameplate problem. You should have had spares ready to go.

Agreed you should have spares but I do feel that the Bugera branded tubes are a big part of the problem or at least a contributor to the problem. Get better tubes and keep your original bug tubes as spares.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby911
Infinium is an imperfect technology (although I like the concept) and may or may not be the cause of your problem.

Contrary to what you've read elsewhere, this is not a 'Bugera' problem per se.

At their price point, they are hard to beat.

Infinium technology may not be the problem but when you consider what the technology is supposed to prevent and then look at how it actually works (at least based on reports on-line) I'm not buying it.

I feel it is a Bugera problem but I also agree that Vox and Marshall and others have had their share of problems back in the day.



Quote:
Originally Posted by psrj32
Thank you guys, for the information. I would like to be able to pop it open and inspect solder joints etc. but am not sure if they have a sneaky way of knowing whether or not it has been opened.

I will talk to Bugera and see what they offer.

Sorry there wasn't actually an explosion, that was just my attempt at a bit of humor!

I can't speak for now but in the early days there were reports of Bugera not honoring warranty claims if they could tell the chassis had been opened.


Quote:
Originally Posted by psrj32
(I'm looking for legitimate answers here, so please no fire extinguishers or "because its a Bugera.)


You can't create a thread with 'Bugera' and 'Explosion' in the title and attempt a bit of humor and then not expect some humor on the readers side of it




































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Old 07-10-2013, 08:11 PM   #20
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blow a power tube? for the record when a tube goes sometimes it still plays but at a drastically reduced output or something....its not really blowen up or out completely.

i had a tube "red plate" the other month and the affect was that it was BRIGHT red opposed to just glowing and the output of my amp was less than half. enuogh for me to stop playing like "what the heck just happened....."
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