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Old 07-16-2013, 06:41 AM   #1
harryscarr
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setting up a p.a. system help (directed here from musician talk board)

first off, sorry if this is nto the correct palce, but i was looking at getting some advice about my p.a.
i have 2 sets of passive speakers (bins and tops)

tops are 1000w max, 500rms at 8ohms, bins are about 300rms at 4 ohms.

now, my problem, tryign to run these off one amp causes problems cos of the resistance. so i was going to run them off 2 seperate amps. now the problem is my desk only has 1 set of xlr outputs. so, can i use a some of the send ports on my desk to go straight to the amp for the bins, and cut the high frequency out, and use the xlrs to go to the other amp for the tops, or......should i come out of the desk, into a crossover, and then use the crossover to send the mid and high to the amp for the tops, and the low for the bins. secondly, can you get a crossover with a single input and 2 outputs per side.
or, could i make my own crossover by getting a fully loaded circuit board crossover, and soldering an xlr connector to the input, soldering and xlr output on the low frequency, and soldering the wires for the mid and high to another xlr out, that way i have 1 xlr out per side dedicated to low frequency, and one to mid/high?
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Old 07-16-2013, 07:08 AM   #2
tim_mop
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The best thing to do would be to buy a crossover.

I'm a little confused about your setup though.

You're coming out of the desk in stereo, yes? You go into the crossover in stereo, out of the crossover in stereo for tops, (sometimes) mono for subs, then into separate amps for subs and tops. Is that what you're planning? Because that's right!

EDIT here's a basic crossover I've used before:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_box_pro_tpc25.htm

As far as I know, configurations like that are pretty standard

Last edited by tim_mop : 07-16-2013 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:32 AM   #3
harryscarr
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that is exactly what im planning, l/r into crossover, then l/r output for tops, AND l/r output for subs.
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:11 AM   #4
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yep, that's the best plan!
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:07 AM   #5
harryscarr
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thanks, can i make a passive crossover to plug into comming out of an unpowered desk, basically i want to use a fully loaded crossover circuit board (3 way) solder an xlr input on so that the whole signal comes from desk inro the crossover circuit. then i want to solder the wires from th low frquency output on the board to an xlr out, this will then plug into the amp for the bins, i will then solder and xlr output onto the mid and high frequcny outputs so that this goes to the amp to run the tops.

will this work as there is no power going into the crossover?
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:19 PM   #6
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That should be fine! As long as the filters are all passive, no power needed (I think!)
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:53 PM   #7
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TBH - I'd think this more belongs in Guitar Gear & Accessories. The guys over there have more experience playing live, where you'd actually use a PA. I'll keep the redirect here, in case one of the Recording guys wants to chime in, but I'm sure you'll get the most responses over in GG&A
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Old 07-16-2013, 01:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harryscarr
first off, sorry if this is nto the correct palce, but i was looking at getting some advice about my p.a.
i have 2 sets of passive speakers (bins and tops)

tops are 1000w max, 500rms at 8ohms, bins are about 300rms at 4 ohms.

now, my problem, tryign to run these off one amp causes problems cos of the resistance. so i was going to run them off 2 seperate amps.


i think this is wise, this way you'll also isolate the bins on their own separate amp which allows for more control over the lows. i know many people who will run a 2000 watt or 5000 watt amp on the bins and a 1000 watt amp on the stands and running multiple amps can facilitate those techniques too (though you won't be able to do that without bigger bins).


Quote:
Originally Posted by harryscarr
now the problem is my desk only has 1 set of xlr outputs. so, can i use a some of the send ports on my desk to go straight to the amp for the bins, and cut the high frequency out, and use the xlrs to go to the other amp for the tops, or......should i come out of the desk, into a crossover, and then use the crossover to send the mid and high to the amp for the tops, and the low for the bins. secondly, can you get a crossover with a single input and 2 outputs per side.
or, could i make my own crossover by getting a fully loaded circuit board crossover, and soldering an xlr connector to the input, soldering and xlr output on the low frequency, and soldering the wires for the mid and high to another xlr out, that way i have 1 xlr out per side dedicated to low frequency, and one to mid/high?


i'd just get a set of cables or converters to convert the plug's formats. for example, i have a number of XLR to TRS cables i keep around for when i need 'em. i also have a bag of XLR (male and female) to TRS converters as well.

as for the crossover, most newer amps have that built in now-a-days. my crown XLS1500 has programmable crossover capability built in.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-...eries-power-amp

also many power amps take XLR, 1/4" or even RCA inputs (that XLS1500 takes all three) so there is usually no need for a converter anyway. so you could plug your board directly into the power amp.

if you need to be able to 'split' the signal (cuz maybe your mixer only has one set of L/R outputs) then you'll either need to get a new system with more outputs (mine has 8 sets of programmable outputs) or you'll need something to split the signal (like a Y cable or some sorta signal splitting box).

so i'd just buy the cables you need to plug in
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Old 07-16-2013, 04:49 PM   #9
harryscarr
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thanks gumbalicious, but i think you might have misunderstood me, connecting isnt the problem, what i want is someway to send only the low frequency signal from the mixer to one amp, and the high frequency to the tops, yes i know i can get a y xlr cble, but that splits the whoel frequency, not the low and high. unless running it with a Y cable and running full frequency into both amps is fine?
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Old 07-16-2013, 05:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harryscarr
what i want is someway to send only the low frequency signal from the mixer to one amp, and the high frequency to the tops


you can put a crossover in between the board and amp, but it is not really necessary as most new amps come with a crossover built in. that is one of the points i made about the crown.

so you can either get/make a crossover or buy a power amp with a crossover (or HP filter) built in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harryscarr
yes i know i can get a y xlr cble, but that splits the whoel frequency, not the low and high. unless running it with a Y cable and running full frequency into both amps is fine?


if the amp has crossover capabilities than that is perfectly acceptable (if your board has enough outputs to run to the amps). just run the LP filter on the bins and a HP filter on the wedges and it will effectively act as a crossover.

the way i would do it is to get a board with enough outputs for me, then get power amps with HP/LP filters. you could also get an external crossover unit (i have one of those too, mine is rackmounted) and run that between the board and the amps, i just don't see a reason to if the amp can already do it.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-...4-way-crossover

something like that should work.

the choice is yours really, either way is valid.
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Last edited by gumbilicious : 07-16-2013 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:12 PM   #11
harryscarr
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that last one is exactly what i want! but ill be making my own, however they wont have the cut and boot on, is there a specific name for that type of crossover, id rather see if i can get a second hand one, or a cheap one in the uk
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:13 PM   #12
harryscarr
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oh, if you check the back, its got one input per side, and 3 outputs, its exactly what i want!
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