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Old 08-15-2013, 01:33 PM   #1
West Riding
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Nature or Nurture?

I have always loved the sound of guitars and aspired to play. I have gone through a few phases in my life where I have bought guitars (cheap shitty ones) and intended to learn. Right away I realised it was not as easy as I thought and lost interest. Now I have got the urge again and want to start learning, but progress is so slow that I don't seem to get anywhere. I don't expect to just click my fingers and be able to play riff after riff but I don't want to spend three months learning a Nirvana riff or something else considered easy. One problem I find is manouvering my fingers to form the more difficult chords almost impossible, I know practise makes perfect but it seems to be taking to long. Anyway I am just debating whether or not you need to be born with a certain something to be able to play guitar, or is it something that you can learn no matter how inept you are at it?
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Old 08-15-2013, 01:59 PM   #2
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Being "born" with the talent is a complete myth. You just have to practice your ****ing ass off. The reason people like John Petrucci are so good is because they practice around 8+ hours a day. It can be extremely grueling and boring, it's a lot of work, but it IS possible, if you have the drive and time.
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Old 08-15-2013, 02:10 PM   #3
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Try Rocksmith. I have a friend that's starting out and he loves it. I have no experience with it though.

http://rocksmith.ubi.com/rocksmith/...home/index.aspx



Anyone can play guitar. It's just how much effort you want to put into it. It sucks starting out, but if you want it, you'll find a way. It's been a long time since I started playing, so I really don't remember a lot of that time, lol. Lessons will help. If nothing else you will have the commitment to the teacher to push you. If you do lessons, get a teacher willing to help you learn your style of music from the get go.

You hands need time. It's muscle memory and doing it over and over, is how guitarist get so good.
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Old 08-15-2013, 02:13 PM   #4
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Mate its all about hard work.But hard focused work cause you can have the urge you can put the hours but if you dont know where to start or worse if you "think" you know you ll fail.

So get a shitty guitar but a good teacher.A good teacher ll make you a plan that you ll follow and ll show you the little things that make the difference between struggling by yourself and making the right things from the get go......and remember instant gratification doesnt work here.If it takes three months then its three months or more to learn a riff or anything.You ll do it cause you want it....orelse you dont really want it that bad lets be serious ....
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Old 08-15-2013, 03:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West Riding
I have always loved the sound of guitars and aspired to play. I have gone through a few phases in my life where I have bought guitars (cheap shitty ones) and intended to learn. Right away I realised it was not as easy as I thought and lost interest. Now I have got the urge again and want to start learning, but progress is so slow that I don't seem to get anywhere. I don't expect to just click my fingers and be able to play riff after riff but I don't want to spend three months learning a Nirvana riff or something else considered easy. One problem I find is manouvering my fingers to form the more difficult chords almost impossible, I know practise makes perfect but it seems to be taking to long. Anyway I am just debating whether or not you need to be born with a certain something to be able to play guitar, or is it something that you can learn no matter how inept you are at it?


The only things you lack are discipline and patience. You need ample supplies of both to get past that initial massive learning curve.

You'll get it, you just need more work and time.
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Old 08-15-2013, 03:59 PM   #6
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No man ever got to be good at anything till he bled and sweated over it.
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Old 08-16-2013, 07:10 PM   #7
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Innate talent is loser talk. It's all about the hours and the attitude.
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Old 08-16-2013, 07:28 PM   #8
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both

its also about finding what the most effective practice and cognitive habits are while practicing

mindlessly running an exercise for an hour is one thing

audiating and analyzing what you do is another

basically everyone thinks differently and everyone's most effective thought process for learning is a little different, but usually following the same principles.



ie how you practice is a huge factor
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgraves
Innate talent is loser talk. It's all about the hours and the attitude.


I'm afraid life is not that just. Some people just get more in return for the hours and attitude. But why bother?
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Old 08-16-2013, 09:15 PM   #10
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Tough to say how much talent has to do with technique, it's everything in composing though.

Singing, drawing etc...you need some natural talent to be great, the more talent the better, guitar IDK
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Old 08-18-2013, 03:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Facecut
I'm afraid life is not that just. Some people just get more in return for the hours and attitude. But why bother?


Hardly, they just practice PROPERLY and have the right resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempoe
Tough to say how much talent has to do with technique, it's everything in composing though.

Singing, drawing etc...you need some natural talent to be great, the more talent the better, guitar IDK


Singing, perhaps, anything that has to do with using your hands and mind is all based on technique and practice, unless you have damage to muscles, tendons or bones, but that goes without saying. If you're not exactly an intelligent human being, you can still copy tabs and such like nobody's business.
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Old 08-18-2013, 05:38 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Velcro Man
Hardly, they just practice PROPERLY and have the right resources.



Singing, perhaps, anything that has to do with using your hands and mind is all based on technique and practice, unless you have damage to muscles, tendons or bones, but that goes without saying. If you're not exactly an intelligent human being, you can still copy tabs and such like nobody's business.


Then explain the wonder childs playing violine and other instruments with amazing expression at an age of 8 or even younger. Proper practice and right resources have to meet innate talent for that to happen. Playing an instrument has more than the physical dimension.
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Old 08-18-2013, 07:39 PM   #13
West Riding
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Thanks for the feedback guys. I am not expecting instant gratification, but I seem to be making no progress weeks later. I know it doesnt just happen over night but I expect to be able to play a few riffs after a month or so. Maybe I am just going about the whole learning process wrong. I think I am going to take a few guitar lessons to see how they go. Whether I like them or not, I'm sure I will learn something so it wont be money wasted.
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Facecut
Then explain the wonder childs playing violine and other instruments with amazing expression at an age of 8 or even younger. Proper practice and right resources have to meet innate talent for that to happen. Playing an instrument has more than the physical dimension.


By starting at around 3 and practicing 8 hours a day, just look at all of those russian and chinese kids whose parents forced them into musical slavery lol

The rule of thumb is that it takes 10,000 hours of proper practice to be master a skill (according to the military) and a 3 year old who practices 5 hours a day until they're 8 will have 9,125 hours under their belt.
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:45 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Velcro Man
Hardly, they just practice PROPERLY and have the right resources..
Do you really believe this nonsense? Because if it were true, everybody in the major leagues that picked up a bat, would hit 60 home runs a season. And that's just not ever going to be true.

Some people have better senses of hearing, better eye/ hand coordination, more natural dexterity, etcetra. And yeah, dome of it it's in the genes.

Because if you believe yur own propaganda, we'd never have champions. Everybody that truly wanted to excel, would.

And TS, quit whining and go play you guitar. If you have to work hard just to suck at it, so be it. There are a lot of people in this world in that same boat. And typing crap on the internet to come up with a shortcut won't work either. There aren't any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by West Riding
...[ ]....but I seem to be making no progress weeks later. I know it doesnt just happen over night but I expect to be able to play a few riffs after a month or so.
"Weeks aren't a very long time. Maybe lessons are a good idea for you, to structure your practice, and have another person's expectations to meet.

You really shouldn't be thinking in terms of learning a riff at a time. You need to learn the instrument, and the licks will come along in due time..

Last edited by Captaincranky : 08-19-2013 at 04:55 AM.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:00 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captaincranky
Do you really believe this nonsense? Because if it were true, everybody in the major leagues that picked up a bat, would hit 60 home runs a season. And that's just not ever going to be true.

Some people have better senses of hearing, better eye/ hand coordination, more natural dexterity, etcetra. And yeah, dome of it it's in the genes.


Implying athleticism is at ALL related to guitar playing or similar in ANY way.

You can also train your hand/eye coordination, dexterity and such. Contacts help with eye sight and hearing aids help with hearing. If someone's blind, they can't play baseball, but if someone has no hands...they can't play guitar, hurrdurr

Quote:
Because if you believe yur own propaganda, we'd never have champions. Everybody that truly wanted to excel, would.


Or, you know, do steroids, but no champions would EEEEVER do that



But yes, champions ****ing devote their entire lives to perfecting themselves and being champions, try telling them they were just handed skill on a silver platter, but you'd better be good at ducking...

Last edited by Velcro Man : 08-19-2013 at 05:06 AM.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:56 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velcro Man
By starting at around 3 and practicing 8 hours a day, just look at all of those russian and chinese kids whose parents forced them into musical slavery lol

The rule of thumb is that it takes 10,000 hours of proper practice to be master a skill (according to the military) and a 3 year old who practices 5 hours a day until they're 8 will have 9,125 hours under their belt.


I'm sorry I can't take you seriously anymore. You believe in your crap with religious fanatism and there is no fertile discussion possible with those guys. Everybody can get decent in the physical dimension, not everybody in the same pace but they can get there. But Music is so much more than that.
And to think a 3 year old mind is capable of PROPER practice 8 hours a day says something about your understanding of the matter.
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Last edited by Facecut : 08-19-2013 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:06 AM   #18
Dreamdancer11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgraves
Innate talent is loser talk. It's all about the hours and the attitude.


This.Not that i dispute innate talent exists but 90% of the time its the copout excuse of the lazy.Attitude also is even more important that the hours you put in practising....cause you may clock thousands of hours of practise and your results ll pale in comparison to your neighbor who maybe devoted half the time to it."He is more talented" is the easy way out but most of the time he is more dedicated,focused and has a better practise plan,teacher and attitude towards his goals than you.

Ask any of the guitarists you consider uber talented and well equipped by nature and you ll find out that their most important weapon was PURE AND RAW DEDICATION.They simply lived and breathed guitar at their developing stage.They didnt HAVE TO practise cause practising for them was their most favorite thing in the world nor did they COUNTED HOURS.Its was a need for them just like breathing.

So in conclusion talent exists but its a very small percentage of the big picture.The real question is how bad you want it.When i hear someone says he has no talent i instantly know he doesnt want it bad enough .
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:22 AM   #19
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I'm sorry I can't take you seriously anymore.


Glad the feeling's mutual, if you can't accept logical facts, don't try to discuss something~
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:34 AM   #20
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No need to convince you, time will do the job.
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