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Old 08-29-2013, 03:39 PM   #1
pAWNlol
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Fry screaming help?

before any of you continue further, i dont care about any of the whole "dont do fries" talk. this is something i really want to learn

anyway, i can already do false-chords relatively well (though theyve digressed since i started neglecting them to work on my singing). i really want to learn to do fry screams because they handle the spectrum of scream ranges well, whereas false-chords are much better for low screams

can anybody teach me any secret tips or tricks for fry screaming? i already know the basics, but i cant get it much louder than a semi-loud whisper

also, power-fry techniques would be appreciated


while youre here, could you also help me out by checking out this post below?
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru...d.php?t=1614976
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:58 PM   #2
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I'm not a vocalist, so forgive me, but what the blue hell is ” fry screaming”?
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Old 08-29-2013, 05:16 PM   #3
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Check out Melissa Cross Zen of Screaming 1 & 2. It mostly gives you practice exercises and hammers in the basics over and over, but thats what its all about. Once you have the basics down packed, practice makes perfect. Your volume should increase as your diaphragm becomes stronger through practice, but keep in mind... mics increase volume too, your goal isn't to scream really loud.
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Old 08-29-2013, 05:26 PM   #4
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From what i've heard zen of screaming is absolute shit, it doesn't really teach you anything at all. At least that's what i've read in the growling thread. I don't really know anything about fry screaming but the guys in this thread

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru...99#post31844599

can help you out.

EDIT: There's no reason you can't do high piched false chord screams though, practically all black metal vocalists use false chords and it will probably be easier to learn false chord highs than to learn an entirely new way of screaming.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:43 PM   #5
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I agree with the OP that frys are the better thing to do. In my metal band I do false chord gutturals and fry highs. It's a bit of a bastard live and you have to keep up the water otherwise my frys sound very dry, but overall I really think frys have a more appealing timbre for high screams - they sound more like an angsty yell than an 'I'M GOING TO RIP YOUR THROAT OUT AND FEED IT TO MY DOG' thing.

Just work on it until it sounds good, man, there's no real technically right way.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:33 PM   #6
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@SaintVitus: really? i didnt think that the zen of screaming would be that bad. and i know you can do the whole spectrum with false-chords (or any scream for that matter), i was just saying theyre more suited for lower screams, especially for me since i have a really deep voice

also, i just want to learn the other types of screams so that i can have some variation, versatility, and also just for the heck of it. plus i like the way fries sound any way

@jaybrink: do you have any tips though? im not even sure my basics are on the right track. any time i add a little volume, the raspy "fry" sound starts to go away, and usually my natural voice becomes more apparent
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:00 PM   #7
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From what i've gathered the zen of screaming is basically 10 minutes where you're told to make a sound like marge simpson or a creaking door and shown a basic breathing exercise and the rest of it is just a circle-jerk where a bunch of singers say how wonderful melissa cross is. This all comes from a lengthy argument in the growling thread a while ago and i should mention i've not actually seen it myself so i probably shouldn't have said anything about it.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:49 PM   #8
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I own both movies. Utter rubbish and YouTube has done it better by far though you have to wade through the crap. Your first mistake is trying to get louder. You end up pushing and that strangles the sound. Fry is a finicky beast and sounds weak as hell outside a mix. Most fry screamers layer their screams on records by recording multiple times. This is fact.

With that said, volume increase may or may not happen over time. It really just depends on the vocalist bit fry is a weak sound when not mic'd. I can get you a louder fry, but its gonna have a different timbre and youll need to be careful with it. Check out my profile. Its the one with "kittehs help.". I didnt like the regular fry scream for the same reasons you are struggling with and so came up with my own. If you want further info on it or if you want false cord help just pm me and we can figure something out.

Also, with regular fry, be weary if you play an instrument as well as you need to have good mic control to not always be cutting out due to the low comparative volume.

Power fry is mostly falsetto based and not really applicable to what you seem to be shooting for.

As for my experience we these techniques, I routinely use false cord lows and highs, fry and power fry, rasp and clean singing in our performances. The worst I get is a touch of hoarseness after a show but that's usually not helped by a underpowered front of house pa.

Best of luck and let me know if I can help
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Old 09-01-2013, 09:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merriman44
I own both movies. Utter rubbish and YouTube has done it better by far though you have to wade through the crap. Your first mistake is trying to get louder. You end up pushing and that strangles the sound. Fry is a finicky beast and sounds weak as hell outside a mix. Most fry screamers layer their screams on records by recording multiple times. This is fact.

With that said, volume increase may or may not happen over time. It really just depends on the vocalist bit fry is a weak sound when not mic'd. I can get you a louder fry, but its gonna have a different timbre and youll need to be careful with it. Check out my profile. Its the one with "kittehs help.". I didnt like the regular fry scream for the same reasons you are struggling with and so came up with my own. If you want further info on it or if you want false cord help just pm me and we can figure something out.

Also, with regular fry, be weary if you play an instrument as well as you need to have good mic control to not always be cutting out due to the low comparative volume.

Power fry is mostly falsetto based and not really applicable to what you seem to be shooting for.

As for my experience we these techniques, I routinely use false cord lows and highs, fry and power fry, rasp and clean singing in our performances. The worst I get is a touch of hoarseness after a show but that's usually not helped by a underpowered front of house pa.

Best of luck and let me know if I can help

well, to start off, are you saying that for fry screams, id have to cup the mic?

also, i know about power fry screams, though sadly the only time i successfully pulled one off was by accident when i tried to sing a note that was just a little too high for me lol. and i want to use them here or there just for their sheer energy and volume, mainly for more intense and angrier/passionate screams.
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:59 PM   #10
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No. But you'll need to get up on top of it, utilizing the proximity effect which makes vox less intelligible while increasing sibillance.

Getting a scream from going too high in your range is not power fry. It is strain and a really bad idea.

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Old 09-02-2013, 12:45 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merriman44
No. But you'll need to get up on top of it, utilizing the proximity effect which makes vox less intelligible while increasing sibillance.

Getting a scream from going too high in your range is not power fry. It is strain and a really bad idea.

i know, i was kind of joking about the power fry thing. obviously if i did it by doing something incorrectly, then the scream itself was done so as well
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:43 PM   #12
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Oh hey sorry man I haven't been here in a while, had exams and sh*t going down.
My advice on pulling fry screams off is to forget everything you've seen on a youtube video. The kid with the fringe (they all have fringes) telling to to make 'the grudge noise', then randomly switch to 'and then you go EAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH' and bust out a scream isn't helpful at all.

I should clarify that I'm a huge believer in not trying to sound like anyone in particular, so I guess most of my fry screams sound like pissed off, yelling, Architects/Converge type vocals rather than a pure fry scream you're probably looking for, though that's a stylistic choice and I can do really distorted high screams if the desire takes me.

My advice is to instead of trying to project air through vocal fry, shout and tame it by layering fry over THAT.

It sounds confusing. I know. I think of it like this: you can distort your voice in two ways - one is the false chord method, the other through fry. False chord is, as you'll know taking a throat-noise and amplifying it - fry means distorting your clean voice. If I might liken it to the signal chain of your guitar, it's like false chord being distortion->voice and fry is voice->distortion.

Fry comes from layering 'an overtone' over your voice. What overtone? That's the million dollar question - I can't really explain it to you. The best suggestion I can give is to listen to something off Architect's Hollow Crown album ('Argh crappy core music' yes I know) and visualize the way Sam Carter is creating his signature scream - it's like his voice is 'cracking' on the yell. You can make the Melissa Cross grudge noise in your throat at the same time as you yell.

We're not talking 'make the grudge and then shout through it', that didn't work for me. I'm talking about shouting (not at the top of your lungs, but about singing volume) and simultaneously adding grit to the shout by the same method you mentioned when your voice cracked when you sang too high. Add that natural distortion over your shout. Initially you'll probably get a slightly dodgy overtone which is quite high pitched (well, I did), but you can tame that. Once you master the ability add fry over a yell, you can mix them to your desired amount to get a pure, high scream ala modern metalcore/deathcore or a hardcore shout (just lessen the amount of fry and add vocal 'tone'). Hope that helps...
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaybrink10101
Oh hey sorry man I haven't been here in a while, had exams and sh*t going down.
My advice on pulling fry screams off is to forget everything you've seen on a youtube video. The kid with the fringe (they all have fringes) telling to to make 'the grudge noise', then randomly switch to 'and then you go EAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH' and bust out a scream isn't helpful at all.

I should clarify that I'm a huge believer in not trying to sound like anyone in particular, so I guess most of my fry screams sound like pissed off, yelling, Architects/Converge type vocals rather than a pure fry scream you're probably looking for, though that's a stylistic choice and I can do really distorted high screams if the desire takes me.

My advice is to instead of trying to project air through vocal fry, shout and tame it by layering fry over THAT.

It sounds confusing. I know. I think of it like this: you can distort your voice in two ways - one is the false chord method, the other through fry. False chord is, as you'll know taking a throat-noise and amplifying it - fry means distorting your clean voice. If I might liken it to the signal chain of your guitar, it's like false chord being distortion->voice and fry is voice->distortion.

Fry comes from layering 'an overtone' over your voice. What overtone? That's the million dollar question - I can't really explain it to you. The best suggestion I can give is to listen to something off Architect's Hollow Crown album ('Argh crappy core music' yes I know) and visualize the way Sam Carter is creating his signature scream - it's like his voice is 'cracking' on the yell. You can make the Melissa Cross grudge noise in your throat at the same time as you yell.

We're not talking 'make the grudge and then shout through it', that didn't work for me. I'm talking about shouting (not at the top of your lungs, but about singing volume) and simultaneously adding grit to the shout by the same method you mentioned when your voice cracked when you sang too high. Add that natural distortion over your shout. Initially you'll probably get a slightly dodgy overtone which is quite high pitched (well, I did), but you can tame that. Once you master the ability add fry over a yell, you can mix them to your desired amount to get a pure, high scream ala modern metalcore/deathcore or a hardcore shout (just lessen the amount of fry and add vocal 'tone'). Hope that helps...

thanks man, this is a lot more helpful than any previous advice ive gotten

as for my desired sound, my inspiration is randy blythe from lamb of god. i understand his voice is layered, EQed, and he also has a different voice (since hes a different person and no two people sound the same), but he is ultimately my role model when it comes to fry screams.

and just to make things clear, you are talking about regular fry screams, and not power fry, right? because a lot of misinformed people use the terms interchangeably (though i would be happy with power fry screams as well)
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:59 PM   #14
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Yeah man, that's for fry. Power fry is basically a more saturated fry scream, not really a whole different technique.
Blythe has a vocal style that goes beyond my understanding - he gets a much more distorted sound than he 'should'. My advice for you is don't focus on sounding like Randy Blythe until you've developed a style of your own. Any q's and just hit me up.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaybrink10101
Yeah man, that's for fry. Power fry is basically a more saturated fry scream, not really a whole different technique.
Blythe has a vocal style that goes beyond my understanding - he gets a much more distorted sound than he 'should'. My advice for you is don't focus on sounding like Randy Blythe until you've developed a style of your own. Any q's and just hit me up.

well, i cant seem to fry at louder volumes. any time i try to fry at a louder volume, it usually just comes out as some rough grit that seems to be coming from my throat and sounds nothing like a fry

or am i actually on the right track?
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:47 PM   #16
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If you're trying to make fry louder, that's not how I'd go about it.
Unfortunately, nobody can really explain how to make that jump, but the best way I can explain it is to make a medium-volume unpitched shout, and add grit so it's like hoarse singing. Then push harder the vibration you'll feel in the back of your throat - it's really, really subtle. Over time you'll get more comfortable in your amount of grit you can add.
Don't try and raise the volume of the grudge-noise fry.

And fry doesn't come from your throat, it should feel as if the distortion is coming from your head. Seems odd, but when you get it you'll understand.
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Old 09-11-2013, 10:03 PM   #17
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A couple of other tips:
There's an exercise called the 'pencil' exercise which is banged on about constantly for the reason that it helps with airflow of high screams: imagine that you have a pencil clenched between your teeth and think of directing airflow over the pencil, or towards your nasal passage. Visualizing that the scream is going to the centre of your forehead works too. This helps with adding fry.

The way you shape your throat is important too: different people describe it differently but the general consensus is that sounds like 'a' and 'i' are more suited to high screams than 'o' or 'u'. Pick lyrical passages that are geared toward high screams, because fry lows are very hard.

Listen to artists who have a vocal tone which makes their technique really obvious - Sam Carter from Architects, Liam Cormier of Cancer Bats or Axewound or Jake Luhrs of August Burns Red. Randy Blythe will take time, and most heavier guys like Joe Duplantier from Gojira and Mikael Akderfeldt favour false chord techniques. Your tone will be quite dry initially - distortion comes with time.
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Old 09-11-2013, 10:27 PM   #18
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This stuff is golden, Jay. However, what you are describing can easily be a third type of vocal distortion we all know as strain. Your method is how I learned fry and I know I batteled with the strain for some time.

For anybody looking to use the aforementioned styling, be a student of your voice and take vocal rests frequently. This post is meant as a caution only. I am not implying that Jay's advice is bad, quite the contrary. Hell, yelling is how the old guys learned how to do these things.

pAWN- Blythe's screams are more true vocal fry than not. He describes and displays his screams on ZEN 1 or 2. The movies are still rubbish, but it may be beneficial for you to watch that section just to see what he's up to.
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Old 09-11-2013, 10:41 PM   #19
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This is true, Merriman. Thanks for the affirmation, but I would absolutely agree that you only have one voice and you should be careful to not blow it out. That's why I advise against yelling at the top of your lungs - singing volume should suffice.

Also, I should have mentioned to make sure that when you come to adding the distorted tone, you should physically (feeling) and audibly associate the distortion with the same base fry noise you've presumably been practising for a while.
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Old 09-13-2013, 10:22 AM   #20
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before i continue, i was to thank you both for all the help. but now for the more important stuff

1) about how long do you think itll take me to get my volume up if i practice regularly?
2) are there any foods/drinks i should avoid, other than milk and especially alcohol?
3) im thinking about skyping or going on tinychat with someone who knows how to do it, that way i can get a better idea of how im doing, and so i can get a lesson that isnt just a video going "okay, make the croaking noise like this 'oggoghgohgohggh' and just keep going until you can do this 'YEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHH'". would either of you be willing to help me?
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