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Old 09-02-2013, 03:03 PM   #41
Roc8995
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Originally Posted by peskypesky
Wrong. There are scads of reviews from Gibson owners who praise the Agiles.

And lots of people who have tried both and thought the Agile wasn't anywhere near as nice.

It's the internet, you can find someone who will agree with you about anything. Doesn't mean the queen is actually a shape-shifting reptilian overlord.
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Old 09-02-2013, 03:35 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Roc8995
And lots of people who have tried both and thought the Agile wasn't anywhere near as nice.

It's the internet, you can find someone who will agree with you about anything. Doesn't mean the queen is actually a shape-shifting reptilian overlord.


Oh yes she is.
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Old 09-02-2013, 04:31 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by jonathan.keeler
, but what is there in the UK in terms of affordable 7 string guitars? And fanned fret ones at that. I'm on a hunt for one to tune G,D,g,d,G,D,f# for an open G7 tuning.

Jackson and Ibanez
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Old 09-02-2013, 04:41 PM   #44
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^ neither offer fanned frets
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Old 09-03-2013, 04:40 AM   #45
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So back to the original argument. I haven't played an epiphone I like and same goes for Gibson.
I've checked out vintage guitars and I've decided on a VRS100.

Im not a fan of les pauls
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Old 09-03-2013, 04:55 AM   #46
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Well, then, it sounds like there will be a NGD thread from you in the near future.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:30 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by jonathan.keeler
^ neither offer fanned frets

That's too bad. If you want a cheap 7 string in the UK, you cannot afford to be picky.
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:30 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by dannyalcatraz
Well, then, it sounds like there will be a NGD thread from you in the near future.


Might be lol
Might wait till I get a few more bits and pieces too first
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Old 09-03-2013, 06:06 PM   #49
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I had a VRS100 for a brief period.

I sent it back. It may have a carved top, but the PRS SE guitars are far nicer and similar money 2nd hand.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:20 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Tom 1.0
I had a VRS100 for a brief period.

I sent it back. It may have a carved top, but the PRS SE guitars are far nicer and similar money 2nd hand.



Ah cheers Tom.
Had a look at them 2nd hand, looks like im gonna try some out soon
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:59 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by samuraigoomba
Yeah, a lot of the people who buy Agile probably don't already own a bunch of Gibsons. I think most of the time they're comparing their Agile to an Epiphone LP Standard or something similar. I've seen several Agile reviews where the reviewer mentioned some small flaw. Maybe if he was paying more, that flaw would have become a major issue.

One thing that really keeps me from buying an Agile guitar is they only rarely offer guitars with name-brand pickups. If I'm going to spend $500 on a guitar, why the hell would I buy one that still might need a pickup upgrade? Seems like a lot of Agile owners end up upgrading the pickups no matter what Agile they buy. So while I hear some argue that the stock pups are great, seems to me that a lot of Agile owners disagree.


You know, we get a lot of people who "think" this and that about Agiles without ever having touched a new one. Most in this discussion have never touched one, used or new. But we have people who make up things about the "people who buy Agiles." Same goes for some other brands; people tend to parrot what they read on the Internet.

My first one, which arrived on the same day as the Gibson Axcess Custom next to it:



I own three Agiles. I have four Moonstones. I have a stack of Gibsons including some you've never touched (such as an original '70's L6S, original '70's L5S, '67 ES-335-12, a '49 ES-175). One Taylor 814ce, a T5, two Variax (an 89F on the way mid-month). Six Carvins, one Carvin bass. Altogether over 50 guitars.

Of bunch mentioned above, only the Moonstones came with pickups from another manufacturer (and those are active Bartolinis in the Vulcans and Invaders in the V). I don't consider it necessarily a positive or an "upgrade" that a guitar comes with pickups from another manufacturer (unless it's a custom guitar from someone who doesn't make pickups), and in fact most major manufacturers do NOT ship out guitars with another manufacturer's pickups.

Here's another factor. There are quite a few different pickups on these different Agile guitars. The AL-2000 series mostly come with a set of ceramic-magnet pickups with one output level, the AL-3XXX series mostly come with AlnicoV magnet pickups with a different output level, some of the extended range guitars come with various Cepheus and EMG and Seymour Duncan (not "duncan-design") JB, 59 and AHD Blackout pickups. Given the variety, you're going to have some folks that love 'em as is and some that don't, and since we don't know who has a tin ear or a cheap amp or a penchant for muffled guitar or a thing for treble, we have absolutely no idea why someone really likes or really dislikes a set of pickups.
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Old 09-04-2013, 08:09 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by jpcl
I'm positive that this guy is from Rondomusic.
I know Agile's can be good deals, but don't push it because some people like to picture them as cheap as water and as good as a Gibson at a fraction, bla bla.


Rondo Music is (from what I can tell) a couple of guys who walk into a tin shed from the snows of New Hampshire, fill some orders and then go down and have a beer at the local. I'm in LA. Some of my friends think I shill for Carvin; I've got half a dozen guitars and a bass from them. Most recently purchased guitar, though: Variax JTV-89F. It's due in within the next week or two. That said, I've been a keyboard player longer than anything, and I've got a Korg Kronos that should be delivered within the next day or two.
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Old 09-04-2013, 08:40 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by samuraigoomba
... Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree as well. I'm willing to believe that Agile instruments are at the approximate level of quality as upper-end Epiphone guitars, but even then I'm not so sure. I have a MiK Epiphone SG-400 with gibson pickups. I don't think it's an especially unbelievable guitar, but it sounds amazing and is set up very nicely.

My point is, it's probably a $300 guitar on the used market on a good day. Seems like a decent Agile is at least $400-500 even in the USA. The quality Agiles (AL2800 and up) seem to hold their value quite well, so I don' t usually see any of them for less than $350 or $400.

Granted, features like an ebony fretboard and wide neck are not offered by Epiphone, and they're very nice. But those are just features, not upgrades. Not everyone is an ebony fiend like me. $400-500 is the price of a used Gibson studio or tribute guitar. I just have a feeling that if more people compared Agile guitars directly to Gibson, they'd come away a bit less impressed with Agile. But Agile's market isn't the same as Gibson's market, and that's perfectly acceptable.


"I have no direct idea what I'm talking about, but"...

Understand, first, that I'm a big Gibson fanboi. My first five or six guitars were Gibsons and I have them all, still. That number would be larger, but there's a '39 Epiphone Emperor (from when Gibson and Epiphone were both US-made guitars and in hot competition on the top end) in there, and then more Gibsons.

Until the big fluffy nostalgia and tradition marketing thing hit Gibson, Gibson offered guitars with various levels of trim.

The cheapest student guitars had dot inlays, rosewood fretboards, flat mahogany bodies and one-piece mahogany necks. Juniors, Specials. No binding. Most pros wouldn't be seen with them. Beginner stuff.

Middle-of-the-line stuff (LP standard, SG Standard, etc.) had mahogany body (with or without a maple cap), mahogany neck, rosewood fretboard and plastic trap inlays. Single binding on the body, single binding on the neck (sometimes), no binding on the headstock.

High-end production stuff came with gold hardware, ebony fretboards, real MOP or Abalone inlays, fancier headstock inlays (split diamonds, flower pots, etc.). Triple binding on the headstock and body, Single binding on the neck.

And top of the line (Super 400, L5, L5S, etc.) usually had maple bodies or body sides, all the stuff from the high-end production line and sometimes fancier binding on the neck, sometimes extra binding on the bottom of the guitar as well as the top, multipiece maple (sometimes with walnut) necks, often figured, and higher end tuners, bridges, tailpieces.

Worth noting that Gibson took great pride in its fit and finish.

An R9, even those with a $6K price tag, is an artificially inflated-price middle of the line guitar. A lot of the cheap LPs from Gibson that are making their way into the under-$1000 market would have been considered junk guitars by Gibson employees if they'd appeared in the '70's. No binding on the neck, rosewood fretboards, plastic inlays. Most importantly, the finishes on these guitars -- a hosing of matte lacquer with no grain fill and no polish -- would have been considered a Japanese fake back in the '60's. Even today, if you were to cover the "gibson" logo or replace it with "Shun Fat" and toss these guitars into a bargain bin at CostCo otherwise untouched next to an Agile AL-2000 at $225, I can guarantee you that any consumer would have picked the Agile as the more expensive guitar.

I'm not sure what YOU consider an upgrade or a feature, but that may be central to figuring out where an Agile places next to a Gibson. Rather than open that can of worms, however, let's leave it that an AL-3XXX at around $400 can unabashedly share a professional's quiver alongside any Gibson at 6-10X the price without embarrassing itself. One fellow on TGP (the cork sniffer's haven) tossed a set of '57's on his used Agile AL-3XXX and despite his preference for R9's and PRS 10-tops, he admitted that the Agile sounded (and played) better than any of them. Go figure.

In my case, the Agile next to the Axcess in a previous photograph currently has exactly the same hardware (and both have been PLEK'd, frets polished/glued and set up) including pickups and Floyds, and the Agile is currently the #1 (the thick solid body is what gives it the edge over the chambered thinner bodied Axcess, honestly). My black Agile AL-3100 Floyd and the Agile AL-2000 Floyd are my two favorite bar guitars.
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Old 09-04-2013, 08:52 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Robbgnarly
Can Agiles be great guitars? yes they can.

Are they on the level of Gibson? I highly doubt it. Most Agiles are made at the Samick plant in Korea. They make very nice guitars and can use great materials. I had a Samick made Squier tele that was amazing.


Agiles are not made at the "Samick plant in Korea."


You "highly doubt" that an Agile could be on the level of a Gibson (we're talking a $700 to $6K+ stretch of guitars in the Gibson camp and a $160 to $1500 range among Agiles, each pushing 10:1 price ranges), though you've never actually owned one and likely have never actually played a new one.

I can tell you absolutely without equivocation that a $700 Agile AL-3200 completely blows away any $700-1000 new Gibson. Crushes, demolishes and destroys it. No question. And that's coming from a Gibson fanboi. The only thing that gibson has going for it at that price point is the name on the headstock.
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Old 09-05-2013, 07:03 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by dspellman
Agiles are not made at the "Samick plant in Korea."


You "highly doubt" that an Agile could be on the level of a Gibson (we're talking a $700 to $6K+ stretch of guitars in the Gibson camp and a $160 to $1500 range among Agiles, each pushing 10:1 price ranges), though you've never actually owned one and likely have never actually played a new one.

I can tell you absolutely without equivocation that a $700 Agile AL-3200 completely blows away any $700-1000 new Gibson. Crushes, demolishes and destroys it. No question. And that's coming from a Gibson fanboi. The only thing that gibson has going for it at that price point is the name on the headstock.

You have the biggest hard-on for Agile I have ever seen.

No you are not a Gibson fanboy, you are a deff Agile fanboy.

Like I said Agiles can be good, but to say they are better or as good a Gibson as a whole is completely ******-statement.

Of all the people that have brought me Agiles to work on, they are on the level of Epiphone and nothing more.

Have a nice day and don't forget to cuddle and pillow talk your Agile after your done ****in it

besides you obviously missed the reason for this thread, TS lives in the UK and was asking about Agile. They are not a good gamble when you add in the shipping, taxes and non-returnable fact .
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Old 09-05-2013, 10:27 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Robbgnarly

Like I said Agiles can be good, but to say they are better or as good a Gibson as a whole is completely ******-statement.


I have no idea what you mean by "as a whole." But at the same pricepoint, I'll stand by that statement (because I have the guitars to compare and you don't), absolutely. In fact, I'll give it a 2X price point and be completely confident in the results.

Look, for $700 at the local Los Angeles Guitar Centers, you get a Gibson LPJ. Not the gold top version, because that's inexplicably $150 more. Weight relieved (cheesed) multipiece mahogany body, two-piece random (not figured) grain maple cap, maple neck, 490R, 498T (AlnicoV) pickups, cheap no-name bridge and tailpiece, cheap no-name 16:1 tuners, no pickguard. Plastic inlays, plastic tuner knobs, standard clunky neck heel. No neck binding, rosewood fretboard, 12" radius, medium-jumbo frets, what Gibson is calling a "worn" finish that doesn't include labor-intensive steps like grain fill, sanding or polishing. Four color choices. And a gig bag. Here in LA, you'll add about 9% sales tax and be out the door for $763.

The AL-3200 will run around $725 (most are $625-675 plus shipping), all up, shipped, with a very nice hard shell case. Neck-through construction with a maple and walnut neck and a solid two-piece mahogany body. The neck is contoured into the body like the Gibson Axcess for great upper fret access and there's a deep tummy cut for comfort. The body and headstock are triple bound, the neck is single bound. Ebony fretboard. Real MOP or abalone inlays, traps or blocks. Nut width is either 1 11/16ths or (in the Wide version) 1 3/4". Old versions, Grover tuners with an 18:1 ratio. New versions, locking tuners. 13.7" radius, jumbo stainess steel frets. AlnicoV pickups. Nickel hardware. Graph Tech NVS2 bridge with String Saver saddles, Graph Tech nut (teflon impregnated). A wide variety of finishes, most gloss but a few flat finishes as well. Left-handed models available, no extra charge.

I've actually played both of these. Seriously, in what particular would you base: "to say they are better or as good a Gibson as a whole is completely ******-statement?"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbgnarly
besides you obviously missed the reason for this thread, TS lives in the UK and was asking about Agile. They are not a good gamble when you add in the shipping, taxes and non-returnable fact .


Here we generally agree. I've said the same thing in other threads in this forum. If you're going to be on vacation here in the US, though, I'd have a friend pick one up for you, inspect it, and have it waiting for when you get here, ready to take back with you <G>.

Unfortunately, the OP's interest in Agiles brought out the "I've never actually seen one, but I imagine they must be...." folks, and I'm addressing the imagined issues with the truth.

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Old 09-05-2013, 11:34 AM   #57
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It also brought out the people who have played both and don't agree with you. The four post in a row fanboys are just as bad at providing useful dialogue.
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:46 AM   #58
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I think everyone is going to have an opinion with some bias to it, even before they pick up the guitar in question to play. Some people have an open mind, and others may not. A lot of things you have to factor in also about which guitar you've tried out, could have been setup wrong or just a lemon, while others have played a fine example of that company's work. Anyways, just enjoy your guitars if you like them...
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:20 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Roc8995
It also brought out the people who have played both and don't agree with you. The four post in a row fanboys are just as bad at providing useful dialogue.


I'm here in LA. The GB folks type when I'm asleep, I type eleven (or so) hours later <G> when they're asleep and not dialoging with anyone.
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Old 09-05-2013, 01:52 PM   #60
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hey dspellman, didn't you say in that speaker thread that mdf was good for guitar speaker cabs? (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru...6&highlight=mdf)

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