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Old 09-16-2013, 12:54 PM   #41
crazysam23_Atax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggaraMarine
Edit: Your thinking isn't wrong but neither is mine or crazysam's. If changing scales makes you play better, do it. But I don't see a point in thinking it that way.

That's basically what I was getting at. And frankly, most people aren't going to be improvising or composing and go, "Oh! Here I'm going to switch to F minor pentatonic!" Chances are, most musicians just won't think that way. There's nothing wrong with thinking the way that GuitarMunky suggests, but I'm just trying to point out that most people think the way that I and MaggaraMarine suggest -- if, for no other reason, because it's an easier thing to visualize mentally.
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:43 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
That's basically what I was getting at. And frankly, most people aren't going to be improvising or composing and go, "Oh! Here I'm going to switch to F minor pentatonic!" Chances are, most musicians just won't think that way. There's nothing with thinking the way that GuitarMunky suggests, but I'm just trying to point out that most people think the way that I and MaggaraMarine suggest -- if, for no other reason, because it's an easier thing to visualize mentally.



ummm okay, Corey & Trevor

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Old 09-17-2013, 12:02 AM   #43
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whatever you know Jimi was thinkin 'hey jimi gonna do a mixolydian lick and then dorian here' ahhh purple haze in my brain. The chromatic scale is a good way to look at it though, but what happens when you analyze some like Couldn't stand the weather intro? SRV is clearly thinking in scales there although he may not have thought theory
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:00 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by GuitarMunky
ummm okay, Corey & Trevor

[/url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjz59SfcPpg[/url]

Excellent response, my dear fellow!
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:46 PM   #45
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thanks again for all the great responses every one but I am still looking for a extetended c minor pentatonic/blues scale i cant figure it out and I cant find a tab or diagram of one, can some one quickly tab me out one or perhaps find a link showing it? thanks every one
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:55 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by merks7
thanks again for all the great responses every one but I am still looking for a extetended c minor pentatonic/blues scale i cant figure it out and I cant find a tab or diagram of one, can some one quickly tab me out one or perhaps find a link showing it? thanks every one



This chart shows the scale in G, but you easily play it in C simply by moving the tonic note up to a C

minor pentatonic scale in 5 patterns



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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
Excellent response, my dear fellow!


thanks, hope it made ya laugh!

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Old 09-17-2013, 09:39 PM   #47
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@ TS: if you already know one "shape" of this minor pentatonic scale, then you can easily find all across your neck without tabs or diagrams or whatever. Its just note's in a distinctive order, repeating.
if you want more notes to add to your existing minor pentatonic scale, then just add more notes, they could be chord tones, chromatics.
If you really wanna know what notes your favorite players play, download VLC, play one of your favorite tracks in VLC, use the slow down option to slow it down once or several times and just copy their notes one phrase or note at a time.

How do you learn to speak a language ? by listening and imitating people that speak that language. And having this knowledge of a new language, you now have to use it to say what's on your mind. you take from other players to learn HOW to speak. you take from yourself to learn WHAT to speak(say).
Is music a language? you betcha'.
Western Music Is like latin, and each genre that is derived from it are different languages like french, german and sub genres are like accents. To speak any of them you gotta get a feel for them, you gotta understand the sound of them.
Good luck.

and by the way, to the tards upstairs in this thread that get hung up on semantics

I said i like to think in order of the Chromatic scale as in Not thinking in scales but in Tonal degrees. INSTEAD of thinking "Ok, I7 chord, ill use the Minor pentatonic, ok V7, ill use the major" I just have all 12 notes to my dispense at all times, i can mix and match them at all times without having to refrain to a scale name each time i land on a note thats not in the blues scale.
If you know what each Tonal systen degree sounds like, that means all 12 notes, over each chord of the major scale and secondary dominats, if you really know what they sound like, you dont need to think of what scale to use or acknowledge anything else then the SOUND itself. All you need to know is the harmony of the song and then play one note. One note is all it takes to figure out in what key you are in, knowing the harmony of the song then is like having a roadmap that makes you know where to go and where not to go.

i would also like to add that, of course could you say that im playing the minor pentatonic blues scale for 1 second and mixolydian the next but who the **** wants to know that, what good does it do when you can substitute allof this with the actual sound you are making and thereby get to focus on what youre actually playing
I hope this helped and doesnt spawn another 2 page argument about scales.

Last edited by Ignore : 09-17-2013 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:32 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merks7
thanks again for all the great responses every one but I am still looking for a extetended c minor pentatonic/blues scale i cant figure it out and I cant find a tab or diagram of one, can some one quickly tab me out one or perhaps find a link showing it? thanks every one


it's already there in the original link you posted. Instead of considering each shape to be separate, they all interlink. The top (highest-pitched) note in any of the box shapes is normally the lowest pitched note in the next highest box shape (and vice versa). So when you're playing either the lowest note on any one string you can slide down the the next lowest shape and then start playing in that shape. Or when playing the highest note you can slide up and start playing the next highest shape. That's pretty much all "extended" shapes means.

e.g. if you're playing

--8-11-8---8
-----------8---

you could play it instead like

----8-11-8-s-6-8 (on the highest string)

you've moved from the first position to the 5th position.

Alternatively it can mean stretching across two shapes. For example, instead of playing

8-11-8 (on the highest string, can't be bothered tabbing out all the strings)

for position one of C minor pentatonic, you can play

8-11-13

so you're using a bit of position 2 as well. [Those are different notes in that last example, I realise that.] If you can stretch that far. It tends to be used on the higher frets which are closer together.
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Old 09-18-2013, 01:37 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Ignore
@ TS: if you already know one "shape" of this minor pentatonic scale, then you can easily find all across your neck without tabs or diagrams or whatever. Its just note's in a distinctive order, repeating.

The only thing I'll add is that, you have to know the notes of the fretboard. Where are the notes C, Eb, F, G, & Bb? Well, if you know 1 or 2 positions of the C minor pentatonic, then you know a few places (because box shapes are just repetitions of the notes of the scale in a box pattern). But, assume you wanted to just use 1 or 2 strings, in this case the B and the high E strings. (See the spoiler.)

Well, we can't use our 6 string box shape, right? So, we have to know where the notes of our scale are located on these strings. Fortunately, this is fairly easy to figure out. But the idea is to know the notes of the fretboard well enough that you don't have to figure out.

Example
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Last edited by crazysam23_Atax : 09-18-2013 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 09-18-2013, 02:01 PM   #50
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I'm never really sure what to say when someone gives the advice of "just play accidentals/chromatics". It's like saying "just play notes" without really any context or explanation for why. When you are adding in your chord tones that are outside of the original key, where do you think those tones come from?
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Old 09-18-2013, 02:01 PM   #51
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The only thing I'll add is that, you have to know the notes of the fretboard. Where are the notes C, Eb, F, G, & Bb?


I dont intend to critizise at all, but i just wanna say that this is easily something that you can figure out on your own without even knowing the notes.
When i was at that stage i was wondering the same thing, but then what i did was i played each note from Minor pentantoic scale shape i knew and one by one note i listened to them and found them on other all over the neck, then i drew up the fretboard on a piece of paper and made dots everywhere where i heard the same sounds all across the fretboard. Now what i had was one big shape containing all the shapes of the minor pentatonic. Felt like i found the holy grail ^^

Quote:
I'm never really sure what to say when someone gives the advice of "just play accidentals/chromatics". It's like saying "just play notes" without really any context or explanation for why. When you are adding in your chord tones that are outside of the original key, where do you think those tones come from?


I agree, but what i think is misunderstood is that people saying that often mean that people just should choose any note they like and not conform to a scale or mode.
But this leads me to the crucial factor of knowing what each degree sounds like, over the harmony. Even if you know all the theory and which notes are chord tones, exstensions and alterations. It still wont help you with what sounds like a good melody, you would know that you could play chord tones but the 3rd chord degree still sounds entirely different than the fifth and one might be right while the other is totally wrong for the purpose of your melody.

Last edited by Ignore : 09-18-2013 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 10-04-2013, 06:53 PM   #52
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Hi everyone, I asked around and some one told me this would be considered a c minor pentatonic extended scale can any one confirm this is correct?

------------------------------------11-13-15--------
----------------------------11-13-----------------
-----------------8-10-12-----------------------
------------8-9-------------------------------
----6-8-9-----------------------------------
6-8-----------------------------------------

any help would be really appreciated thanks guys! It really does not sound like a pentatonic scale at all..

Last edited by merks7 : 10-04-2013 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 10-04-2013, 06:58 PM   #53
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What exactly do you mean by extended. This kinda post makes me wish the guitar wasn't such a shape based instrument.
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:05 PM   #54
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nah i don't think so, you have the flat 5th (5th string, 9th fret, Gb) and also a major 7th in there too (9th fret, 4th string, B), so it's not going to be pentatonic minor as you have a couple of extra notes in there.

As I said, earlier, you just take all those shapes from the initial link you posted and stick them together. Any notes that are used in that link are C minor pentatonic. Any notes not used aren't.

Sorry if that's confusing.
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:07 PM   #55
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A few years I learnt this

---------------------------8-10--------------------------------
----------------------8-10-------------------------------------
------------------7-9-----------------------------------------
------------5-7-9----------------------------------------------
-----3-5-7-----------------------------------------------------
-3-5----------------------------------------------------------

some one told me it was a extended pentatonic scale, what I mean by extended is where you start at a lower fret of the low e and end up on a much higher note on the high e, like you play the scale from the lower end and end up higher up on the neck like you extend the scale to get a different sound

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Old 10-04-2013, 07:14 PM   #56
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yep, i understand what you mean. that one looks like E minor pentatonic, starting on the minor 3rd (G) and ending on the b7 (D) (don't quote me on that, it's late and I only took a quick look ).

Going by your link, here's one that'd work (for C minor pentatonic)

-----------------------------------------11-13s15--
---------------------------------11-13--------------
----------------------8-10s12----------------------
---------------8-10---------------------------------
------6-8s10---------------------------------------
-6-8------------------------------------------------

Starting on the minor 7th (Bb) and ending on the 5th (G).
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Old 10-05-2013, 05:17 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by merks7
A few years I learnt this

---------------------------8-10--------------------------------
----------------------8-10-------------------------------------
------------------7-9-----------------------------------------
------------5-7-9----------------------------------------------
-----3-5-7-----------------------------------------------------
-3-5----------------------------------------------------------

some one told me it was a extended pentatonic scale, what I mean by extended is where you start at a lower fret of the low e and end up on a much higher note on the high e, like you play the scale from the lower end and end up higher up on the neck like you extend the scale to get a different sound

Yeah, that's an easy way to move up the fretboard. But it's still the same scale, you are just playing it in many octaves. It gives you more range and easy fingerings (you only need to use your index and ring finger here). But it doesn't give you any different sound. It's the same scale, it has the same sound.

Though your fingering is a bit wrong. That's E minor pentatonic but it also has a C. If you want it to be E minor pentatonic, it would be like this: (I also added slides and open low E string and 12th fret of high E string to make it more complete - starts and ends with the root.)

-----------------------------------8-10s12----------------------
-----------------------------8-10--------------------------------
------------------------7-9---------------------------------------
----------------5-7s9--------------------------------------------
-----------5-7---------------------------------------------------
-0-3-5s7--------------------------------------------------------
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:25 AM   #58
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^ ah i missed the C Good catch.
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Old 10-05-2013, 08:14 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Mc
yep, i understand what you mean. that one looks like E minor pentatonic, starting on the minor 3rd (G) and ending on the b7 (D) (don't quote me on that, it's late and I only took a quick look ).

Going by your link, here's one that'd work (for C minor pentatonic)

-----------------------------------------11-13s15--
---------------------------------11-13--------------
----------------------8-10s12----------------------
---------------8-10---------------------------------
------6-8s10---------------------------------------
-6-8------------------------------------------------

Starting on the minor 7th (Bb) and ending on the 5th (G).


this really sounds a lot better then the orginal tab I had thanks, so is this considered c minor pentatonic still? Thanks guys
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Old 10-06-2013, 12:46 AM   #60
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Lol yes play that tab for the blues and add chromatics
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