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Old 09-12-2013, 08:13 AM   #41
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2,998 copies burned one for each victim.... He does realize that that total number of dead includes the terrorists on the planes as well.......
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Old 09-12-2013, 08:46 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemoninfluence
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24059408

illegally transporting fuel and openly carrying a firearm.


Thanks. Was no reason stated in the original story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerBabbath
Because everytime he tries one of his stupid little anti-Islamic stunts, it sparks off violence in the Middle East against Americans. As your link says, he "repeatedly has ignored pleas from the U.S. military asking him not to stage his protests. Military officials say his actions put American and Western troops in Afghanistan and elsewhere in danger."

So, the fact is, he knows damn well that his actions will cause incitement to violence, mainly against his fellow Americans, so that also makes his actions a security risk against American armed forces stationed in the Middle East. Under the 'fighting words' doctrine, (established in 1942 by a 9-0 decision during the Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire case) he can be (and was) arrested before he carried out his obvious intentions to put his fellow Americans at risk.


Ummm no.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:34 AM   #43
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:35 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerBabbath
Because everytime he tries one of his stupid little anti-Islamic stunts, it sparks off violence in the Middle East against Americans. As your link says, he "repeatedly has ignored pleas from the U.S. military asking him not to stage his protests. Military officials say his actions put American and Western troops in Afghanistan and elsewhere in danger."

So, the fact is, he knows damn well that his actions will cause incitement to violence, mainly against his fellow Americans, so that also makes his actions a security risk against American armed forces stationed in the Middle East. Under the 'fighting words' doctrine, (established in 1942 by a 9-0 decision during the Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire case) he can be (and was) arrested before he carried out his obvious intentions to put his fellow Americans at risk.


That's a neat theory, too bad it's dead wrong.

If he had gone about this only slightly differently, he never would have been arrested, contrary to your supposition above.

He'd still be an asshole though...
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:37 AM   #45
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:39 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBC
Terry Jones has been charged with illegally transporting fuel and openly carrying a firearm

Translation: Terry Jones has been arrested for being 1 cheeky kunt but they had to find a proper reason too
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:46 AM   #47
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If he had been in a collision with that much kerosene on board it would have likely ended very badly. If you're planning a demonstration at least put some thought into it. Clearly though, failure to plan is the least of his issues.
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:08 AM   #48
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Kerosene doesn't ignite from impact.
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:10 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by JustRooster
Kerosene doesn't ignite from impact.

Not entirely true. But much safer to transport than gasoline.
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:12 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustRooster
Kerosene doesn't ignite from impact.

But there are typically sparks from two large pieces of metal colliding with each other.
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Old 09-12-2013, 02:50 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerBabbath
Because everytime he tries one of his stupid little anti-Islamic stunts, it sparks off violence in the Middle East against Americans. As your link says, he "repeatedly has ignored pleas from the U.S. military asking him not to stage his protests. Military officials say his actions put American and Western troops in Afghanistan and elsewhere in danger."

So, the fact is, he knows damn well that his actions will cause incitement to violence, mainly against his fellow Americans, so that also makes his actions a security risk against American armed forces stationed in the Middle East. Under the 'fighting words' doctrine, (established in 1942 by a 9-0 decision during the Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire case) he can be (and was) arrested before he carried out his obvious intentions to put his fellow Americans at risk.

Whilst I agree that doing something so offensive is incredibly irresponsible, I do not agree that he should be arrested for it. The islamists have the freedom to choose whether to riot and kill because of it or not. The murderer (should anyone get killed as a result) is the one responsible for murder, not the person who 'provoked' them.
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Last edited by I.O.T.M : 09-12-2013 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 09-13-2013, 04:17 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal58



Ummm no.

Hey, I was just going off what it said in your link.

"Jones is the pastor of a small evangelical Christian church. He first gained attention in 2010 when he planned to burn a Quran on 9/11, although he eventually called it off. His congregation did burn the Muslim holy book in March 2011, and last year he promoted an anti-Muslim film. All three incidents sparked violence in the Middle East and Afghanistan.

The most violent protest happened after the 2011 Quran burning as hundreds of protesters stormed a U.N. compound in Mazar-i-Sharif in northern Afghanistan, killing seven foreigners, including four Nepalese guards.

Jones repeatedly has ignored pleas from the U.S. military asking him not to stage his protests. Military officials say his actions put American and Western troops in Afghanistan and elsewhere in danger."

I find it strange that people here agree that he's incredibly stupid and 'irresponsible' for what he does, obviously because of the conflict and risk to life that he causes, yet the same people don't think that he should be legaly stopped from acting so irresponsibly. I mean, it's one thing to put yourself in danger by acting irresponsibly, but it's another thing entirely to put someone else at risk because of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemoninfluence
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24059408

illegally transporting fuel and openly carrying a firearm.



So that's the official reason for his arrest....
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Old 09-13-2013, 04:26 AM   #53
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Don't you think that troops going into islamic country incites danger more on american citizens?

If a stranger comes into my home I'd slap him.

If a stranger comes into my home, and armed with a gun tells me how to run things around my house..


..well I would do something more stupid.

If strangers start fighting in front of my house with other's, then I would join to attack the ones that came here, not my neighbours.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people in the middle east feel this way.
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Old 09-13-2013, 04:30 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxdarrenxx
Don't you think that troops going into islamic country incites danger more on american citizens?

Yes I do.
Doesn't make what Jones attempted to do any less irresponsible though.
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Old 09-13-2013, 04:34 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerBabbath
Yes I do.
Doesn't make what Jones attempted to do any less irresponsible though.


Just to add this was not specifically towards you

I agree though.

I guess what I really want to say is, is that the root lies somewhere else.

My country does not get islamic attacks, strangely my country does not invade islamic countries as frequent and aggressive as american government.

This may not be a good correlation at all, but I'd like to think it's a good place to start, albeit naive on my part.

Then again, the middle east might bargain their resources in euro's for a better price, crashing all of America, and in turn, my own economy, almost like an economical paradox.


so might be best to show whoose boss.
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Old 09-13-2013, 06:19 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerBabbath
Hey, I was just going off what it said in your link.

"Jones is the pastor of a small evangelical Christian church. He first gained attention in 2010 when he planned to burn a Quran on 9/11, although he eventually called it off. His congregation did burn the Muslim holy book in March 2011, and last year he promoted an anti-Muslim film. All three incidents sparked violence in the Middle East and Afghanistan.

The most violent protest happened after the 2011 Quran burning as hundreds of protesters stormed a U.N. compound in Mazar-i-Sharif in northern Afghanistan, killing seven foreigners, including four Nepalese guards.

Jones repeatedly has ignored pleas from the U.S. military asking him not to stage his protests. Military officials say his actions put American and Western troops in Afghanistan and elsewhere in danger."

I find it strange that people here agree that he's incredibly stupid and 'irresponsible' for what he does, obviously because of the conflict and risk to life that he causes, yet the same people don't think that he should be legaly stopped from acting so irresponsibly. I mean, it's one thing to put yourself in danger by acting irresponsibly, but it's another thing entirely to put someone else at risk because of it.



So that's the official reason for his arrest....

I think he is incredibly stupid and ignorant. But I also support his right to be incredibly stupid and ignorant.
His actions are no different than the gay rights group that bought a home across the street from the WBC and painted it in the rainbow coalition colors and turned it into a group headquarters. They did it to offend them. They did it to make a statement they knew was going to anger Fred Phelps. The difference is the WBC does not kill people.
The Satanic Verses, Danish Cartoons, Terry Jones. Does not matter who says or does what the people they piss off are bat shit insane.
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Old 09-13-2013, 07:02 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxdarrenxx
Don't you think that troops going into islamic country incites danger more on american citizens?


I think the evidence of the last fifty years points in the other direction, the majority of cases of Jihadist attacks on civilians have been inspired by literature or a specific action that offended those so made as to be easily offended (lolpaleyreferenceinreligiousdiscussion,selfhighfi ve!), and ultimately all of them came down to a case of Jihadists being offended by freedom of expression; the Salman Rushdie fatwah; the Danish cartoons; 9/11, which was an attack on western liberty. The whole point of terrorism is to target the people, and Islamist terrorism recently has clearly been about enforcing a predetermined surrender in the civilians of western countries. This is toxic. In many ways - although this bloke is clearly a **** and I hate to see books burnt, regardless of content - I think now that he should have been allowed to do it. To stop him from doing something that is not illegal for fear of offending batshit crazy Islamists is simply to surrender without a fight.

edit: ^ yeah, that.
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Old 09-13-2013, 07:48 AM   #58
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What a try hard. Unless some day after tomorrow shit happens, literature should never be burned. Specially holy literature.
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Old 09-13-2013, 08:06 AM   #59
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9/11, which was an attack on western liberty.
Common misconception. Bin Laden actually explicitly stated the attacks were retaliation for "Western support for attacking Muslims in Somalia, supporting Russian atrocities against Muslims in Chechnya, supporting the Indian oppression against Muslims in Kashmir, the Jewish aggression against Muslims in Lebanon, the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, U.S. support of Israel, and sanctions against Iraq."

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates...fatwa_1996.html
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Old 09-13-2013, 08:15 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by psyks
Common misconception. Bin Laden actually explicitly stated the attacks were retaliation for "Western support for attacking Muslims in Somalia, supporting Russian atrocities against Muslims in Chechnya, supporting the Indian oppression against Muslims in Kashmir, the Jewish aggression against Muslims in Lebanon, the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, U.S. support of Israel, and sanctions against Iraq."

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates...fatwa_1996.html


And the reason for many of those actions from the west are entirely due to the a western notion of freedom, especially in the case of the defense of Saudi Arabia, support of Israel, and sanctions against Iraq. Bin Laden's main inspiration was Sayyid Qutb, who denounced the west solely on terms of its concept of freedom and human agency. It's not possible to divorce Bin Laden's philosophy, and the reasoning behind 9/11, from a hatred of the western ideals of freedom and the fact that the west was willing to act on these ideas.

You have to remember that at the time that Bin Laden announced al-Qaeda's motives he was clearly attempting to insight a kind of global Islamist uprising, or at least a support of his Islamist ideas. Thus, citing actions that explicitly harmed Muslims is clearly the best way forward; simply saying 'I don't like the way people thousands of miles away dress' is hardly going to incite hatred.
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