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Old 10-11-2013, 01:52 AM   #1
nignog
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Creating a guitar tone

So, I've been on a guitar tone binge lately and I've been trying to create a nice guitar tone from scratch for a few days and I've love to hear some advice from anyone about achieving a great, full tone on my DAW.

Currently, here's what my signal looks like.

ReaGate (Reaper NoiseGate)
TSE 808 v1.0
ReaEQ (Reaper EQ - Bad Frequency Sweep)
ReqEQ (Reaper EQ - High/Low Pass - Currently Disabled)
Poulin Lecto
Poulin LeCab2
ReaVerb (Reaper Reverb)

So, I'm pretty sure I'm far from where I want to be. My main issue is that I have a general idea of what kind of tone I want, and I'm about 75% there with my current tone. The only issue is that is sounds a bit shallow to me, and there's an awful, awful fuzzy, screeching noise that I can't seem to get rid of through the EQ. The hissing/fuzzy/screeching noise seems to be on the high end, but I can't seem to find it, nor get rid of it. I'm also not too sure about how to go about doing further processing to make this any more pleasant to the ear. Any tips, pointers or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks.
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Old 10-11-2013, 02:42 AM   #2
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Your EQ is in the wrong place (or you need another one). You really should put it either after LeCab, or after ReaVerb. Also what are you doing with ReaVerb? are you using it's inbuilt reverb or loading some form of impulse? If you're using it's inbuilt reverb then maybe look at a better reverb plugin, it's pretty average.
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:25 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chatterbox272
Your EQ is in the wrong place (or you need another one). You really should put it either after LeCab, or after ReaVerb. Also what are you doing with ReaVerb? are you using it's inbuilt reverb or loading some form of impulse? If you're using it's inbuilt reverb then maybe look at a better reverb plugin, it's pretty average.

Thanks, I'll try both.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:02 AM   #4
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If you want to get rid of the high fizz get yourself a spectral analyzer (most eqs have one, dunnow about reaper's) and put it before the noise gate.
See if you can find there the frequency of the sound you want to get rid of, and eq it if you can.

If you can't, put the analyzer after the amp and repeat the already described process.
Still doesn't work? Put it after the cab.

To make your sound less shallow you could load a couple more cab impulse responses and raise the bass freq a bit.

Your best bet though is to double/triple/quadruple/whatever track your parts if you want a really thick and wide sound.
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:39 AM   #5
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So, I've added an edit to the post in regards to how I solved my initial issue, but now; even after I made two different tones from scratch (using a different amp/cab sim each time), I get my two guitars (rhythm and lead) fighting for sonic space. I'm not entirely sure what I should do to go about resolving this issue. I've already tried playing around with a high/low pass eq. Any ideas would be fantastic.

Current Chain:
Gate
TSE 808
Amp Sim
EQ
EQ
Cab sim
Reverb
EQ
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:06 AM   #6
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I know you already have it on the list



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Old 10-15-2013, 10:59 AM   #7
crazysam23_Atax
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Here's how it should look.
Code:
Gate TSE 808 Amp Sim Cab sim EQ Reverb


You're probably ruining your tone by having the other EQ's.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:14 AM   #8
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Yeah... why two eq's?
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:38 PM   #9
nignog
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First is a bad frequency sweep, second is a shaper to smooth out the dents I made in the frequencies, and third is a high pass filter. I'm far less worried about the tone as a whole, and more worried about the rhythm/lead tones fighting for space when played together. But I get neither. I get a muddy rhythm sound, and a passable lead sound (when played solo). When the lead is played on top of rhythm it sounds just as awful as the rhythm does.

Last edited by nignog : 10-15-2013 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:04 PM   #10
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So... you're cutting bad frequencies... just to add them again?
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:18 PM   #11
crazysam23_Atax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nignog
First is a bad frequency sweep, second is a shaper to smooth out the dents I made in the frequencies, and third is a high pass filter. I'm far less worried about the tone as a whole, and more worried about the rhythm/lead tones fighting for space when played together. But I get neither. I get a muddy rhythm sound, and a passable lead sound (when played solo). When the lead is played on top of rhythm it sounds just as awful as the rhythm does.

Why wouldn't you just have 1 EQ that cuts out all the bad frequencies, also shapes, and acts as a high pass filter?

Also, do you EQ your lead and rhythm differently? (I assume you have separate tracks for lead and separate tracks for rhythm. If not, you should!)

Your lead should be like:
Code:
Gate TSE 808 Amp Sim Cab sim EQ -- this should emphasize highs and mids Delay -- required Reverb -- optional

Note that, without delay, your lead guitar is going to sound flat and probably won't sustain worth shit. Don't make the delay too crazy, as it just needs to be a slight delay. The reason to emphasize highs and mids with your lead is because the idea is that your lead guitar will be playing higher notes, in general. So, emphasize these, in order to make it easier to cut through your rhythm guitar.


Your rhythm should be like:
Code:
Gate TSE 808 Amp Sim Cab sim EQ -- this should emphasize low end a bit, mids a lot, and highs least of all Reverb -- optional

A lot of your guitar tone comes from the mids. It's best to emphasize the mids, unless you're going for a very specific tone that uses "scooped mids". The reason you don't emphasize rhythm highs as much as lead highs is because you want some of that low-end punch to be there.



See, your lead and rhythm NEED to be EQ'ed differently. And you might as well just use 1 EQ on each track to do everything. As Chem said, with 2 or 3 EQ's, you're cutting out bad frequencies and then adding those bad frequencies back. It makes no sense.
One final thing -- and this is VERY important -- make sure that you double-track your rhythm guitars. That means you need to record each rhythm guitar part twice, once for each of the two rhythm tracks. (Do NOT just record it once and then copy-paste it into the other track.) One of the rhythm tracks should be panned left (75% to 100%), and the other rhythm track should be panned right (75% to 100%). (Note that some people actually will triple track, which is where one track is panned center, a 2nd is panned left, & a 3rd is panned right. This does mean recording every part 3 times, btw, which is why many people stick to just double tracking.) You could also double track your lead parts, but many people choose to just have a single lead track and turn the rhythm slightly down during solos or important lead licks.
Anyway, the whole point of double tracking to get a full stereo sound, which results in a more powerful sounding mix overall.
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Last edited by crazysam23_Atax : 10-15-2013 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:54 AM   #12
nignog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
Why wouldn't you just have 1 EQ that cuts out all the bad frequencies, also shapes, and acts as a high pass filter?

Also, do you EQ your lead and rhythm differently? (I assume you have separate tracks for lead and separate tracks for rhythm. If not, you should!)

Your lead should be like:
Code:
Gate TSE 808 Amp Sim Cab sim EQ -- this should emphasize highs and mids Delay -- required Reverb -- optional

Note that, without delay, your lead guitar is going to sound flat and probably won't sustain worth shit. Don't make the delay too crazy, as it just needs to be a slight delay. The reason to emphasize highs and mids with your lead is because the idea is that your lead guitar will be playing higher notes, in general. So, emphasize these, in order to make it easier to cut through your rhythm guitar.


Your rhythm should be like:
Code:
Gate TSE 808 Amp Sim Cab sim EQ -- this should emphasize low end a bit, mids a lot, and highs least of all Reverb -- optional

A lot of your guitar tone comes from the mids. It's best to emphasize the mids, unless you're going for a very specific tone that uses "scooped mids". The reason you don't emphasize rhythm highs as much as lead highs is because you want some of that low-end punch to be there.



See, your lead and rhythm NEED to be EQ'ed differently. And you might as well just use 1 EQ on each track to do everything. As Chem said, with 2 or 3 EQ's, you're cutting out bad frequencies and then adding those bad frequencies back. It makes no sense.
One final thing -- and this is VERY important -- make sure that you double-track your rhythm guitars. That means you need to record each rhythm guitar part twice, once for each of the two rhythm tracks. (Do NOT just record it once and then copy-paste it into the other track.) One of the rhythm tracks should be panned left (75% to 100%), and the other rhythm track should be panned right (75% to 100%). (Note that some people actually will triple track, which is where one track is panned center, a 2nd is panned left, & a 3rd is panned right. This does mean recording every part 3 times, btw, which is why many people stick to just double tracking.) You could also double track your lead parts, but many people choose to just have a single lead track and turn the rhythm slightly down during solos or important lead licks.
Anyway, the whole point of double tracking to get a full stereo sound, which results in a more powerful sounding mix overall.


Thanks, I learned a lot about using EQs properly from your post. However, after finishing reading the end of your post I wanted to clarify that right now, I'm looking to create two tones rhythm and lead so they won't clash when I layer them so I can use my DAW to help me brainstorm song ideas. When I go for a final mix I generally look into doing a lot more of the post-recording mixing and sound-good techniques such as double tracking.

With that being said, should I be worrying about the hiss and fizz I'm getting from my amp/cab sim at all? I've been reading articles and guides about proper eq and some of them say not to worry about the eq at all until I'm ready to do post recording mixing; which I would love, but I can't even get to that until I can actually hear the things I'm laying down.

After so many hours today, I think I might be spending waaaay too much time trying to get rid of 100% of the fizz/hiss out of my rhythm and lead guitar tone. I'm not exactly sure if all the hiss/fizz is natural because I never hear it in any properly mixed track. I've spent so much time trying to get rid of 100% the hiss/fizz that I'm starting to really get irritated both physically and mentally because all I'm ever left with is some hissing noise I can't get rid of, or a completely gutted tone that lacks high/mid tones everywhere.

Thanks again for everyone's help.
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Old 10-16-2013, 06:39 AM   #13
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All that needs to be done to reduce fizz and hiss from digital amps, in most situations, is a low pass around 10khz, as most amps don't go above that in real life, and one, maybe two, notches out of the upper register where amp sims are known to struggle a little.

If you're worried about clashing, cut some mids, not much, but if you need to take focus away from the guitars then cut the central mids to free up space for a lead or vocals.
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Last edited by ChemicalFire : 10-16-2013 at 06:44 AM.
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Old 10-27-2013, 03:22 PM   #14
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if you're not double tracking, then you probably have your gain set too high on your rhythm sound to get saturation.

double track first.

read that last line again.

decrease gain.

pan rhythm guitars wider and leads narrower.

try different impulse responses that don't accentuate those frequencies you hate so much.

you can route the output of your rhythm left and right to a third track with the fx on it only. then any changes in tone stay consistent across both (all).
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:02 AM   #15
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Creating a great guitar tone:
Good guitar. good amp. 2 mics. 2 pre-amps, Phase switching.
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:11 PM   #16
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I'd leave the EQ out for the meanwhile and try different impulses and LeCto's tone controls. Find an impulse that doesn't emphasize the sound you don't like, like crabstampede said.

Also 50% of a kick-ass guitar tone is bass guitar in my opinion. Most good guitar tones sound thin without bass and heavy with a bass, so if you don't have a bassguitar you should except the fact that your guitarsound might be kind of thin.

EDIT:
Also, playing is a big part of your guitar tone. I have this friends and even if we play on the same gear his tone blows mine out of the water eveyrtime simply due to his superior playing technique.
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:20 AM   #17
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*Text*


Good post.
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