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Old 10-12-2013, 04:16 AM   #1
ChucklesMginty
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Making VST drums sound real-er for real.

(sorry for the barrage of threads)

Often I export drums from GP5 to Superior Drummer when doing or cover or if I've composed in GP5.

When you do that the drums generally sound like arse because all the velocities are flat or just plain don't make sense. Even if I go in and edit them they still have that drum machine quality to them and I know SD is capable of decent realism.

Any advice on that?

Edit: Bonus question. I have no wah pedal. But there is a wah in POD farm which I can cheat by using with mouse, but this only affects it in real time. How do I record the track with the wah added? I have to somehow set another track to record the output of the recorded guitar track.
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Last edited by ChucklesMginty : 10-12-2013 at 04:29 AM.
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:41 AM   #2
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For the drums: It's always a good start to use the randomize/humanize function on both the timing and the velocity. For velocity, if I'm doing something more important than a quick practice mix then I also go through and manually humanize first. To do that you just have to think like a drummer, hit the strong beats harder, and the other beats weaker.

For fast kicks make every second kick weaker (because it is most likely the weaker foot on a double kick) or for really fast kicks (things that would have been heel-toed on a double kick) order the velocities so the first is the strongest, then the third, then the second, then the fourth (the weak foot is still stronger than the heel of the dominant one).

Make hits on the beat stronger than beats that are off the beat, and make sure you hit the first beat of each bar hard.

Once you've done all that kind of stuff still randomize the timing and velocities, but not as much as you might if you were just randomizing guitar pro's midi (I usually go 5% instead of my usual 12% velocity randomness).

For the Wah thing, you should be able to control that via automation. Getting to that differs between DAWs, for REAPER you open the effect, click "Param", then FX Parameter List > Show Track Envelope > Then find the parameter you want to control (the wah).
That'll open up a thing underneath the track you're doing it on, which you should be able to map out your wah to.
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:43 AM   #3
ChucklesMginty
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Much appreciated man.
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Old 10-12-2013, 06:38 AM   #4
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reverb & compression are very useful tools for that kind of thing,
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:43 AM   #5
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I split the midi track into 4 separate ones, kick/snare/metallic/toms, and generally use different VSTi for everyone, after that it's all working with effects and mixing properly. Also, editing velocities obviously plays a huge part.
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:07 AM   #6
xFilth
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Velocity editing is everything when it comes to realism
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:48 AM   #7
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One thing that you need to remember is that although Superior Drummer is really great software and has very high quality samples of drums you do need to mix it before it sounds shit hot. You'd be amazed how much the human feel is emphasised once its compressed and ran through an eq. Reverb is great for giving a natural roomy feel. Just something to consider alongside from the velocity/timing info that everyone has given you. Superior Drummer is great but to get really lush sounding results it needs to worked with and it does take time.
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Old 10-12-2013, 10:48 AM   #8
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I use EZ drummer with reaper and use ez drummer's humanize AND reaper's (15%velocity 4%timing) together with a couple manual tweaks for snare buzz ins, rolls, and better cymbal emphasis and it gives it a good feel, but not great. Then to get it sounding the way I want I put an instance of epicverb on for quick echo-y ambiance to mimic a drum room (ezdrummer's room sound is too crunchy, even for the heavy alt-rock stuff I do, so it stays and -24 so it's just a tiny bit). After that it's a normal plate-ish reverb (also epicverb), reacomp, reaEQ (slight bump at 50hz, cut at 100hz then the top end whatever way fits the final mix) and then ferric for some dirt and limiting.

The comp and ferric is what gives most of the "realism" and makes it sound great (IMO) instead of just good. The verbs and EQ are more about taste and fitting the mix. I use the default kit and mix the drums in EZ drummer and then put the plugins on the kit as a whole. I actually prefer the sound of the kit on one stereo track and EQ'ed/verbed/comped as a whole instead of being separate tracks; it keeps the drums more coherent to my ears.
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Old 10-12-2013, 12:33 PM   #9
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you know you can edit the velocities in guitar pro right? Hit f11 and it gives you a visual representation making it much easier.. they carry through when you export the midi so it might be faster and easier for you to do the velocities as you write your song from now on.
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Old 10-13-2013, 04:55 AM   #10
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i used to have this problem all the time, with superior i use some presets on the the kick and snare and add compression and additional eq. I have a very periphery/misha mansoor esque patch for DKFH, one of the most difficult kits to get to sound not so ridiculously clicky and poppy. snare and kick is boss these days. im willing to share this patch as a guide line so you can see where to place certain fx in a chain.
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Old 10-14-2013, 05:54 AM   #11
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Yeah velocities are everything as well as timing. Don't use 127 all the time it just sounds like an RnB beat. I usually stay within 105-125 for the hard hits. I even use velocities down to around 40 for softer stuff. And always hit the cymbals a bit softer than the rest, it sounds kinda fake if they're smashed at every hit. Basically think like a real drummer. You might have to study them a bit.

But it really depends on your genre. Metal for example sounds very artificial nowadays so a good part of the humanize process is less needed.

Last edited by Sethis : 10-14-2013 at 05:58 AM.
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Old 10-14-2013, 12:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sethis
But it really depends on your genre. Metal for example sounds very artificial nowadays so a good part of the humanize process is less needed.

I disagree with this. You still need to humanize it for any genre, even (and especially) Metal. Our goal here, after all, isn't to sound make our drums sound like a drum machine. It's to make them resemble a real drummer.
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:26 PM   #13
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After you get the realistic velocity mapping... THEN you can squash the drum kit with the compressor to remove all dynamics and make it sound like real modern metal! xD
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Old 10-14-2013, 05:12 PM   #14
Sethis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
I disagree with this. You still need to humanize it for any genre, even (and especially) Metal. Our goal here, after all, isn't to sound make our drums sound like a drum machine. It's to make them resemble a real drummer.

I'm just saying there's this drum-machine-like trend in modern metal. Your goal may differ.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:05 AM   #15
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I know you already have it on the list



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Old 10-17-2013, 02:14 PM   #16
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Another suggestion would be to keep the panning standard / realistic.
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Old 10-20-2013, 10:22 PM   #17
Ababil_Albarn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xFilth
Velocity editing is everything when it comes to realism


^^^ this.

Real drummers dont hit everything the exact same way with the exact same attack that's "the human element".

If you are not a drummer, try drumming if you can get the chance. And visualize playing the drums as you program.

This might seem obvious but limit yourself to 2 arms and 2 legs, you can only play 4 notes at the same time.

You'll get more "realistic" drums, I guarentee.
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Old 10-26-2013, 05:20 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by justfoldedflags
reverb & compression are very useful tools for that kind of thing,


compression is useful because it traps your specified sound to have its own space in the mix.

that is, if u know how to compress correctly.
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