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Old 11-17-2013, 09:37 PM   #21
Rockford_rocks
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Tell him you think he needs to improve before taking on such a large role.

Then recommend him a vocal teacher if you know one, if not just tell him a teacher can help solidify his technique or some "you're almost there" bullshit. Then he/she can tell him that he sucks so he can hear it from a professional.

Bam.
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Old 11-17-2013, 09:38 PM   #22
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What makes you think you have to tell him he "sucks"? Find a tactful way of arranging it such that you don't need to.

Something like "The music I want to make in this band isn't really suited to backing vocals" or whatever you want.
This I have actually tried.

Ended unsuccessfully, with a shit ton of excuses. And the problem isn't with backing vox (which we make use of), it's that he wants lead parts.
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Old 11-17-2013, 09:39 PM   #23
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Old 11-17-2013, 09:40 PM   #24
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Just say he doesn't fit in the vocal category of the band
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Old 11-17-2013, 09:41 PM   #25
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oh hey
I'm moving this to bandleading
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Old 11-17-2013, 10:31 PM   #26
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Record him singing and let him hear it. He'll probably end up in tears crying "I DIDN'T KNOW, I DIDN'T! so get ready to comfort him...
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Old 11-17-2013, 10:52 PM   #27
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^Thats actually a brilliant suggestion. If he still thinks he's good when he hears it then he's not worth bothering with.

I would say just tell him his singing style is not what you want, but it sounds like you've tried that and it hasn't worked.
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Old 11-17-2013, 11:19 PM   #28
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Tell him straight out that he can't sing, but don't be angry with him. Let him know that you want him in the band AS A BASSIST. If you wanna take the nicer approach, drop hints at it before actually telling him.
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Old 11-17-2013, 11:39 PM   #29
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show him this thread?
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Old 11-18-2013, 12:23 AM   #30
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Okay so multi-quoting is a bitch on my my phone so I'm gonna be lazy and refers to post #'s.

#26: That isn't too bad of an idea, but if it's anything like before he'll just excuse-ify it during playback.


#28: I've dropped as many hints as I can possibly drop, I've even stated we have vocals covered. But he really seems to want a role as a singer for some reason.

And I really don't know how to flat out tell him he can't sing without naturally sounding like an ass.
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Old 11-18-2013, 02:07 AM   #31
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1. Record him and play it back to him.

2. Really put the praise on thick for his bass playing but say that for this project his vocals dont mesh with the sound you are going for.

If he still does excuses.

Tell him I need a killer bass player. And you are him. But I am looking for something different on vocals. If this is to work out i need you on bass not vocals. If you want to pursue lead vocals you will need to find a different project.

If he still says excuses

Then just drink enough beer that he actually sounds good.

Problem.

Solved.
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Old 11-18-2013, 03:05 AM   #32
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Don't step around the subject - hit it head on.

Mate, I like your bass playing but I want a singer who is better than you for this band.
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Old 11-18-2013, 03:36 AM   #33
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Say you like his bass playing, but not his vocals. If he doesn't listen, have someone listen to him that could take him in a fist fight tell him how awful he is.
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Old 11-18-2013, 05:42 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockford_rocks
Tell him you think he needs to improve before taking on such a large role.

Then recommend him a vocal teacher if you know one, if not just tell him a teacher can help solidify his technique or some "you're almost there" bullshit. Then he/she can tell him that he sucks so he can hear it from a professional.

Bam.

This. Though I wouldn't say "you're almost there" because that's just BS. I would say something like "if you want to be the lead singer, you need to be better at singing. But if you want it so much, get a teacher and you'll get better."

I mean, if he really wants it so bad, he should be ready to improve his singing.

And yeah, record him singing and he'll hear that he's not as good as he thinks he is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake™
Don't tell him he sucks, just say he shouldn't ever ever ever ever ever try to sing

I don't like comments like this because that's just BS. Everybody can learn to sing. Though I'm not completely sure which of the posts in the thread were jokes.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:47 PM   #35
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Find a lead singer who he thinks sounds really good to join the band. Then, he'll want him to sing.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:58 PM   #36
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Don't step around the subject - hit it head on.

Mate, I like your bass playing but I want a singer who is better than you for this band.

This, honestly. If he's not mature enough to handle that, he'll most likely cause problems at some point. Unless he's the greatest bassist ever, it's not worth it.
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:28 AM   #37
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You MUST be honest here. You will do far more harm to your relationship by trying to dodge here. Yes, people's egos get in the way, and he may leave for a band where he can sing. If that's what he wants, then you can't do a thing about it.

"I love playing with you, and think you're a great bass player, but honestly your vocals just aren't where they need to be for this band. You're not on pitch, and your technique is very poor. If those problems got fixed, I can't say that you'd be the right singer for this band because so much of being a singer is about how you connect with an audience, but right now your singing just isn't where it needs to be to even consider it."

Then listen and nod to his excuses, and say something along the lines of:

"I understand that this is hard to hear, because singing is something that we all feel is a really personal thing, and being told our singing isn't good enough feels like we're being rejected personally. But I'm not rejecting you. I like you. I like your bass playing. I think you bring a lot to the band. But you can't be our singer. I understand if you want to find a band where you can sing, but I would love for you to stay with us as a bass player."

At some point you may want to say something like, "From everything I've been told, singing is something you have to learn just like you have to learn an instrument. You've put years into being a bass player, and that's part of why you're so good at it. If you want to be as good a singer as you are a bass player, that's going to take years of work, too. I'd love to see you take that journey, to see where you end up, because I think you have a lot of musical talent. But without that dedicated training, that talent isn't expressing itself through your singing."

Don't lie. Don't pussyfoot around. Be honest, but nice while you're being honest. (That is to say, if anything I wrote in those quotes above is not true, DON'T SAY IT.)

Understand that he may snap or say something rude or act like he's been personally attacked. If he wants to stomp out of the room and call you names, let it wash off your back - remember that he's likely to feel like you just told him he lacked value as a person. A day or two later reach out to him and say something like, "Hey, just wanted to say hi, see how you're feeling," but don't push him. If he's a distant, give it a week or two and maybe email, "Hey, just wanted to see if you wanted to be our bass player. We'd love to still have you but understand if you want to go elsewhere. We're going to have to start looking for someone else if you don't want to be with us."

If his ego is still hurt, even after this approach, then he was never going to be able to stay in the band anyway.
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Old 11-22-2013, 02:35 AM   #38
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^This is actually really helpful.


While most of these replies are helpful, the problem with the responses saying "we're looking for better vocals more suited for the band" is that, well, I'M the vocalist. And by saying that, I'd be saying "I think I'm better than you" which sounds pretentious as shit. Even if it is true.

I mean, for the longest time I hated my vocal skills, and I STILL hate claiming anything like "I'm a good singer", but others have told me I'm really good as well as asking if I could teach them. So that itself speaks in place of me.

And since most "vocalists" I've auditioned in the past were pretty much jokes (but nowhere NEAR as bad as this guy), I've just decided to take role of vocalist and guitarist for this band.
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Old 11-22-2013, 03:49 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Ian_the_fox
^This is actually really helpful.


While most of these replies are helpful, the problem with the responses saying "we're looking for better vocals more suited for the band" is that, well, I'M the vocalist. And by saying that, I'd be saying "I think I'm better than you" which sounds pretentious as shit. Even if it is true.

I mean, for the longest time I hated my vocal skills, and I STILL hate claiming anything like "I'm a good singer", but others have told me I'm really good as well as asking if I could teach them. So that itself speaks in place of me.

And since most "vocalists" I've auditioned in the past were pretty much jokes (but nowhere NEAR as bad as this guy), I've just decided to take role of vocalist and guitarist for this band.

What are your bandmates' opinions?
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Old 11-22-2013, 09:03 AM   #40
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What are your bandmates' opinions?
He hasn't attended a practice yet, I've just jammed with him one on one. So far just my guitarist heard my imitation of him which I feel I've managed to get pretty spot-on. As you can imagine cringes were induced.
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