Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Music > Musician Talk > Bandleading
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 11-21-2013, 10:20 PM   #1
Sui_is_painless
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Leave or not to leave

Hi guys sorry about my English but my native language is French.

One year ago I formed a band based in my ideas, my conception of music, the band's name, the logo it was all my ideas so I can say the band was born from my concepts and ideas, I also contributed with 6 songs of my own to the band.

- When the people entered the project they did know what were the main concepts and ideas(musically speaking) of the band, everyone agreed and seemed really happy with it, sometimes even overwhelmed, but things have changed.

I want to know that I always gave FREEDOM to all the people in the band to have their own ideas, most of our ideas and concepts were voted since the formation was completed, I always wanted to have a band like that, that was equally interest in what we were doing but...and it's a big but

Recently one member of the band brought a song in FRENCH, one of my main reasons to create this project was to do music in ENGLISH, the other guys seemed okay with with but I'm really unhappy more unhappy because he said he was gonna always bring musics in FRENCH, FRENCH and a really different genre of music that we were playing, is like having a hard rock band and someone wants to put a John Mayer or a Bryan Adams song there.

But that's not the main reason I want to leave, when I criticized the fact that was a French song him and the rest of the band was really angry, I wasn't rude with anyone, I just said it wasn't what I had in mind when I created the band but they were really angry about it.

Since then our relation was really deteriorated and I'm even more unhappy, I'm being criticized all the time by them, and I feel really alone in there, more than that I feel it's not the project I planned from the start.


I'm really divided right now, for one side this is "my band", I created from the scratch from other hand I feel really unhappy there.

Should I stay or should I go?
Sui_is_painless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 12:08 AM   #2
AlanHB
Godin's Resident Groupie
 
AlanHB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Canberra, Australia
Hey no worries, French is not my native language but I'll give it a shot anyway:

C'est merde! Oui! Le quit!
__________________
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
AlanHB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 12:16 AM   #3
HotspurJr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
But that's not the main reason I want to leave, when I criticized the fact that was a French song him and the rest of the band was really angry, I wasn't rude with anyone, I just said it wasn't what I had in mind when I created the band but they were really angry about it.


I know you say you weren't rude, but there are really two possibilities here.

One, they're all a bunch of jerks - each and every one of them - and any sort of reasonable comment you made would set them off, or two, that you unintentionally said something that came off to them as rude. It's easy for me to imagine how "this wasn't what I had in mind when I created this band" could be power-trippy and weird.

You need to sit down and have an adult conversation with them about this. "Hey, it seems like I said something that pissed you guys off, but I don't understand how or what. Could you explain that to me?" If they won't have that conversation, then quit. But when you have that conversation, listen.

If the result of that conversation is that you guys can feel good about working together, great. If not, move on.
HotspurJr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 12:19 AM   #4
crazysam23_Atax
Burning away
 
crazysam23_Atax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Frozen North! (read: Northern Wisconsin)
If you're unhappy with it (and the rest of the band is unwilling to do what HotSpurJr suggested), then take your music and leave.
__________________
Tunes?

Bandcamp

Now working on my upcoming EP "Discarnate". See the expected track list on my bandcamp.



Terry Prachett is funnier than you! Discworld
crazysam23_Atax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 12:20 AM   #5
AlanHB
Godin's Resident Groupie
 
AlanHB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Canberra, Australia
^^^^ Admittedly Hotspur's answer was more constructive than mine.

Obviously you're on different pages as to how the band is going to go. Sit down and have a chat about it. If you guys can't figure it out, leave.
__________________
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
AlanHB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 12:21 AM   #6
ironmanben
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Try to work around it first. I'd say it's ok to experiment with different genres. If this one member of your band is bringing in songs that aren't your style, it's possible to keep the songs, but adjust the style a bit. The style/genre of a song can be flexible. My favorite example is "You're Crazy" by Guns n' Roses - there's the Appetite For Destruction version, but there's also the acoustic Lies version. Both are the same song, but they style it differently. I'd be open to having French songs too, it could create a very cool effect of diversity. So yeah, try to compromise and work things out before you quit.
ironmanben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 12:25 AM   #7
Mister A.J.
Ker-Blang-a-Woggle
 
Mister A.J.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: I can't remember
I'd write French, but I suck at it. A lot.

I think you should sit down and discuss all of the issues with the band. It's a very common thing, and hey, you might be able to work something out. Honestly, I think a band having bilingual music is awesome, so I'm biased in this issue.
__________________
Join the 7 String Legion!

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.


Official Approval
show
Mister A.J. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 12:36 AM   #8
Sui_is_painless
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
I really thank your point of view because this is really tough to me, I'm really sad with all this situation.

I tried to talk once with them and my goal was to talk about this subject, but the conversation end up with that particular member attacking me about other situations, some of them really ridiculous and that make no sense.

I'm a really straight forward guy and sometimes that is really misunderstood, yeah I have my flaws and in the past when I made a I mistake I apologize for it, sure I have my share of fault in this situation but it's really hard to try something to work it out when people only want to point their finger at you and don't want to talk like adults.

ironmanben - I understand your argument, I love both versions of that song, but the question here is not to have an acoustic and calm song side, and a more raw side of some songs, it's having a genre that doesn't fit our genre. I'm a very liberal guy a like many kinds of musical genres, and I think a band should not go only one path, is good to explore other paths but I think when a band is in the beginning of her career/life is not healthy to have 3 ou 4 genres in 10 original songs, it's a little bit confusing for the people who are watching a show of that band.
Sui_is_painless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 12:40 AM   #9
Sui_is_painless
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister A.J.
I'd write French, but I suck at it. A lot.

I think you should sit down and discuss all of the issues with the band. It's a very common thing, and hey, you might be able to work something out. Honestly, I think a band having bilingual music is awesome, so I'm biased in this issue.


I don't disagree with you totally, the major issue is not the language I could accept that if the song was similar to the genre we are playing but the song is really different, it doesn't fit and singing it in french is making that worse.

It's like you Watching Star War movies, if you watch part 1, 2 and 3 without the first 3 parts(4,5 and 6) you think "ok, cool movies" but if you watch after watching the first 3(4,5 and 6) you think "wtf is this???"
Sui_is_painless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 01:07 AM   #10
Mister A.J.
Ker-Blang-a-Woggle
 
Mister A.J.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: I can't remember
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sui_is_painless
I don't disagree with you totally, the major issue is not the language I could accept that if the song was similar to the genre we are playing but the song is really different, it doesn't fit and singing it in french is making that worse.

It's like you Watching Star War movies, if you watch part 1, 2 and 3 without the first 3 parts(4,5 and 6) you think "ok, cool movies" but if you watch after watching the first 3(4,5 and 6) you think "wtf is this???"

Ah, I see the issue now. Though, I still say sit down with your band and discuss it.
__________________
Join the 7 String Legion!

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.


Official Approval
show
Mister A.J. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2013, 01:20 AM   #11
Sui_is_painless
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Actually we have two or three major issues I think the two major issues in the band is lack of forthrightness and lack of stomach to deal with criticism.

For example we have one song that the drummer wants to sing and in the gigs we gave the reaction of the public was really bad, people get a little bit shocked and lose interest of the gig.
No one has the balls to tell him "you're not doing a good job, you're a great drummer but not a good singer" and I don't think it's fair for me to give my chest to the bullets all the time and the others stay in silence and make the good guys role.

It's a shame having these issues because we gave a couple of gigs and the reactions in general(except for the drummer song) were really really good.

Last edited by Sui_is_painless : 11-22-2013 at 01:37 AM.
Sui_is_painless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 02:42 PM   #12
Blackst4r
in Gibson we trust
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sweden
Ok....my 2 cents

1. you started a band of equals....even though you may feel that you´ve put in the majority of work there were no rules laid down for who´s Alfa

2. since there is no captain your dealing with majority rules.....drummer can´t sing, you do a vote, band wants to play french song....you take a vote

3. it seems that even if your not trying to be rude you´ve pissed them off somehow.....you need to choose now whether to swallow some pride and go with the majority or quit.

4. learn from your mistakes,,,,if you have a clear cut idea how you need your band to be....start a new one, but this time with clear rules....I´m a firm believer of "democratic-dictatorship" when it comes to band leading. Everybody should have room for there own musical creativity but there should be guidelines and someone that make final decisions......in the long run it is what is better for the good of "the band"....everyone cannot be happy all the time....as long as the majority is this is what will keep a band going for a long time, something to remember if your gunna be "the boss"
__________________
I believe in god, jesus and the holy ghost.....or as i call them Angus, Kirk and Lemmy
Blackst4r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2013, 10:40 PM   #13
Sui_is_painless
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackst4r
Ok....my 2 cents

1. you started a band of equals....even though you may feel that you´ve put in the majority of work there were no rules laid down for who´s Alfa

2. since there is no captain your dealing with majority rules.....drummer can´t sing, you do a vote, band wants to play french song....you take a vote

3. it seems that even if your not trying to be rude you´ve pissed them off somehow.....you need to choose now whether to swallow some pride and go with the majority or quit.

4. learn from your mistakes,,,,if you have a clear cut idea how you need your band to be....start a new one, but this time with clear rules....I´m a firm believer of "democratic-dictatorship" when it comes to band leading. Everybody should have room for there own musical creativity but there should be guidelines and someone that make final decisions......in the long run it is what is better for the good of "the band"....everyone cannot be happy all the time....as long as the majority is this is what will keep a band going for a long time, something to remember if your gunna be "the boss"


I criticized the song but I said we should vote, I lost and I didn't made a living hell to anyone because of that, I accept it but my criticism left open wounds, it shouldn't, I think it's healthy to have criticism in a band that's why I feel really unhappy, everyone try to accept everyone songs even if they are bad, in the back of that person they say it's a bad song but in the front they don't have guts to say it.
The same thing with the drummer sing issue, that really sucks because that doesn't fit my personality, I don't like saying things in the back and then in the front it's all rainbows and smiles.

I agree with you almost 100%

The major issue here it's when I started a band there were guidelines, one of them was to sing in English, when people enter a band they accept everything because they want to please, then when their post is "secure" they start to breaking these guidelines.

I'm starting to feel I'm not meant to have a band, the first one I had the guitar player quit to be in a tribute band, the bass-player quit to be a missionary(I'm not joking) on the second one the band break up because the guitar player wanted to control everything even my musics so I clashed with him, the drummer and bass player were his friends so they left too.

Now this... it's really hard to have a band

Last edited by Sui_is_painless : 11-23-2013 at 10:45 PM.
Sui_is_painless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 06:03 PM   #14
Blackst4r
in Gibson we trust
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sweden
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sui_is_painless
Now this... it's really hard to have a band



Yes it is...It´s like real life....nothing turns out like the dream...and if your really, really, really lucky you´ll win the lotteri and manage to get a group of individuals that work well together and enjoy themselves and agree....but it wont last long.

Find someone you work well with and start a band.....all the others should be expendable, this has worked for me....I really like some of the guys that have been in my band....but myself and the other founder are the band,,,,we own the equipment, the van, the websites and so on....we decide the sound but allow for creativity...luckily enough we do covers so theres no ego when it comes too "who wrote what"...but when we start doing that the band will still have the same heirki....it´s like a restaurant.....every chefs bring different flavours and recipe´s.....but the owner of the establishment is what keeps the ship floating
__________________
I believe in god, jesus and the holy ghost.....or as i call them Angus, Kirk and Lemmy
Blackst4r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2013, 06:22 PM   #15
Sui_is_painless
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackst4r
Yes it is...It´s like real life....nothing turns out like the dream...and if your really, really, really lucky you´ll win the lotteri and manage to get a group of individuals that work well together and enjoy themselves and agree....but it wont last long.

Find someone you work well with and start a band.....all the others should be expendable, this has worked for me....I really like some of the guys that have been in my band....but myself and the other founder are the band,,,,we own the equipment, the van, the websites and so on....we decide the sound but allow for creativity...luckily enough we do covers so theres no ego when it comes too "who wrote what"...but when we start doing that the band will still have the same heirki....it´s like a restaurant.....every chefs bring different flavours and recipe´s.....but the owner of the establishment is what keeps the ship floating



I think that my biggest mistake was to give too much freedom if you know what I mean, but certain ego-fights were the issue too, the drummer and the bass player always called me "the leader" I always said that everyone is a leader because everyone knows their responsibilities, when I planned our first gig I planed in a way to everyone can shine as musicians and as a band.

I'm a really pro-active guy when I'm in a band and I felt that was getting in the guitar player nerve is like he wanted to be the most important guy in the band or at least I shouldn't be so important or so pro-active. He and the other guitar player were getting really close so when I criticized the other guitar player song(I don't criticize things just because, I criticize with my arguments and points of view) both of them start to create a distance with me, with time I noticed that the drummer and the bass player too, so I can assume bad things were said(even lies) behind my back.

I always did things thinking in the better way for the band and the bandmembers, and always thought it was possible to have a band with people having equal votes, equal importance and so on.

It's a shame because musically we worked really well, I'm in my 30's so I'm getting tired of this BS.
Sui_is_painless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2013, 03:40 PM   #16
Phil Starr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Somerset,UK
The trouble is that when you are in a band you all have your own dreams and it is very frustrating when other people don't share those dreams or something about them gets in the way of your dreams.

I expect the rest of the band see you getting in the way of what they dream about too, hence the anger.

In England we instinctively kick against our leaders, in France I guess it is just the same. It is probably the same way the whole world over. You may be getting more than your share of criticism because you are seen as a leader.

Take your time, think about whether you enjoy playing the music with this band at all. Even if it is less than your dreams it can still be good. Ask yourself how much you are prepared to compromise. Will that leave enough to make this band worthwhile?

Talk to the band as individuals to see what they are really thinking, can you all have enough of what you want to make it good for all of you? If not then it has reached the end of the line for you. You might find you can work with some of the band but not all of them, so form a new band or sack the rest of the band if you think the name is worth retaining. Take your time deciding as a completely new band takes a lot of effort to form and may bring its own problems.

The problem with democracy is that you can lose the vote, so long as the issue is discussed and the vote fair I can live with that but it is messy and there is no guiding mind. If you are losing all the votes it probably isn't the band for you.
Phil Starr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2013, 04:21 PM   #17
Sui_is_painless
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Starr

The problem with democracy is that you can lose the vote, so long as the issue is discussed and the vote fair I can live with that but it is messy and there is no guiding mind. If you are losing all the votes it probably isn't the band for you.



I never asked to be a leader, I think some of them saw me that way because I'm the most pro-active guy in the band, I always get things done and always push the band forward, things were really great, our facebook page was getting many likes, our work good feedback, our gigs received great feedback also but since that criticism(what I can't understand is that I never criticized them as human being, I criticized one song made by one people) they start to pushing me back, I don't think it's fair to reject all my ideas just because I was honest about that song, when I make a song I always expected to receive bad reviews by the band, I think the only way we can evolve as musicians is to listen bad reviews too, bad but constructive reviews.

Things are getting really hard now and I think my decision is to leave because this kind of attitude is really ungrateful for all I've done right, like I read one day "you can do 99 things right and one thing wrong that people are going to criticized the wrong one for a long time".

Cheers
Sui_is_painless is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:56 AM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.