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Old 01-07-2014, 03:55 PM   #1
downtuned123
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Metal tone with the free amp sims

Alright, so I checked the sticky, and downloaded as many amp sims as i could, uploaded them into cubase, and still cannot get a decent metal distortion. What am I missing? I am running my guitar through a clean channel on my digitech rp355 (which also serves as my Audio interface), then into my computer. I am strictly using the 5150 clone amp for my distortion, and i have to admit, it sounds NOTHING like a 5150 head would actually sound. It sounds like some 60's rock distortion, and by no means an actual crunchy 5150. Can someone please tell this recording newb what he is missing???? im pretty desperate at this point, considering buying an instrument mic and recording with my line 6 spider, but i was thinking there must be an easy, cheap way to do this digitally. I am not looking for a mastered sound, just a good distorted sound that i can record with.

My footpedals preset distortions do not sound good during recording as well. Please help.
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Old 01-07-2014, 04:18 PM   #2
JD Close
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You need to buy a nice real amp, play it through a nice guitar, using two mics and then into an expensive audio interface. And even then you won't be happy. You have to sink a ton of money into your rig before it's good enough for you to listen to, and then another ton before it's good enough for someone else to listen to. Good metal tone is like the perfect ass. It's big and beefy. Or maybe it's tight. Or maybe it's crunchy. It all depends on what kind of metal you want your ass to play. Either way, someone else's ass is always going to sound better. And that's the meaning of life.
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Old 01-07-2014, 04:45 PM   #3
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I know its on reaper, rather than cubase but its what I use. The key is the impulse plug in - at least in my experience.
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:44 AM   #4
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NickCrow lab stuff and LePou stuff is pretty good.
LePou also does an IR utility to import your own stuff, and it's full of free IRs out there.

Start from a signal chain like
Guitar -> Amp Sim -> IR utility

And then start messing with things, try adding some distortion before the amp, try different IRs and so on.
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Old 01-08-2014, 06:48 PM   #5
BlueIceBox
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Here's a pretty decent pack of VSTs which you can use in your DAW of choice:
http://www.simulanalog.org/guitarsuite.htm

- Boss DS-1 (Distortion stompbox)
- Boss SD-1 (Super Overdrive stompbox)
- Tube Screamer (Overdrive stompbox)
- Oberheim PS-1 (Phaser stompbox)
- Univox Univibe (Modulations stompbox)
- Fender Twin 1969 (Guitar amplifier)
- Marshall JCM900 Dual Reverb (Guitar amplifier)

I haven't tried the modulation pedals but the JCM900 with the Tube Screamer (along with decent impluses) sounds great! I'd say it sounds better than some of the models on my Vypyr. If there was zero latency I'd switch to using VSTs but alas even a little latency throws me off

Here's a video of someone showing it off:


Just to add, you will need to use a cabinet sim (LeCab does the job for me) and some decent speaker impluses (search for GuitarHacks impluses) otherwise it's just going to sounds fizzy and horrible.
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Last edited by BlueIceBox : 01-08-2014 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 01-09-2014, 01:41 AM   #6
downtuned123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD Close
You need to buy a nice real amp, play it through a nice guitar, using two mics and then into an expensive audio interface. And even then you won't be happy. You have to sink a ton of money into your rig before it's good enough for you to listen to, and then another ton before it's good enough for someone else to listen to. Good metal tone is like the perfect ass. It's big and beefy. Or maybe it's tight. Or maybe it's crunchy. It all depends on what kind of metal you want your ass to play. Either way, someone else's ass is always going to sound better. And that's the meaning of life.


this..is...awesome.
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Old 01-09-2014, 01:42 AM   #7
downtuned123
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as for the rest of the posts, tomorrow i will be playing around with your all's advice, and i really appreciate the input. if I have any questions, I will let you know, and thank you in advance!
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Old 01-09-2014, 01:45 AM   #8
downtuned123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moody git

I know its on reaper, rather than cubase but its what I use. The key is the impulse plug in - at least in my experience.


that sounds exactly what I am wanting!! are all of these plugins free? if so, where can i acquire them?
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Old 01-09-2014, 01:46 AM   #9
downtuned123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueIceBox
Here's a pretty decent pack of VSTs which you can use in your DAW of choice:
http://www.simulanalog.org/guitarsuite.htm

- Boss DS-1 (Distortion stompbox)
- Boss SD-1 (Super Overdrive stompbox)
- Tube Screamer (Overdrive stompbox)
- Oberheim PS-1 (Phaser stompbox)
- Univox Univibe (Modulations stompbox)
- Fender Twin 1969 (Guitar amplifier)
- Marshall JCM900 Dual Reverb (Guitar amplifier)

I haven't tried the modulation pedals but the JCM900 with the Tube Screamer (along with decent impluses) sounds great! I'd say it sounds better than some of the models on my Vypyr. If there was zero latency I'd switch to using VSTs but alas even a little latency throws me off

Here's a video of someone showing it off:


Just to add, you will need to use a cabinet sim (LeCab does the job for me) and some decent speaker impluses (search for GuitarHacks impluses) otherwise it's just going to sounds fizzy and horrible.



ok, can you elaborate? i just downloaded the 5150 clone from the sticky, what else do i need? a footpedal sim, and a cab sim? anything else? I feel like you guys are gonna get my tone ready to shred, so thank you!
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:41 AM   #10
FaceFive
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I just wrote a little pluggo with the tones from the pantera album, if you wanna try it out.

Just 1 knob, so the tone is there lol

Final Version! (v3)

Dime In A Box, Dime has literally been in a box for ten years, but this is an amp sim not a coffin.

Had fun making it, I think i'm finished with it.

It emulates the rhythm tones from
the 5 Pantera Albums.

Grab it here! (PC VST 32bit)
http://www.dropbox.com/s/yt5ar5lhdr...ox%203%20V3.dll

Demo by Axell Strad ( Vulgar Display Of Power )
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32811273/Dime.mp3
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Old 01-09-2014, 06:12 AM   #11
smc818
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Well...if you're gonna use live mic. Mic position and the type of mic plays a
role. Then you'll get into accoustic of room. Sounds boncing everywhere.
And you'll get outside noise such as the AC or a jet flying over.lol

I like Shred....by AcmebarGig. It has 5 different heads.
That vst comes with FX.
Cabinet, mic and room size emulators.
Plus it also has pick up emulators.
It's also has presets for quick start up if you dont wanna mess wtih it.
You can also bypass the amps...ect

You can also get indiviual heads. From Acmebar gig. All those amps have a treble drive
to give crazy metal crunking sounds.

It depends where you chain the FX...pre amp or after amp.
You need a nosie gate.

Get delays, Reverbs and Pitch shifter. Minimum for metal
If your gonna chain everything seperate
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Old 01-09-2014, 01:34 PM   #12
BlueIceBox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downtuned123
ok, can you elaborate? i just downloaded the 5150 clone from the sticky, what else do i need? a footpedal sim, and a cab sim? anything else? I feel like you guys are gonna get my tone ready to shred, so thank you!


You need a cab sim VST such as LeCab which can be found here http://lepouplugins.blogspot.co.uk/

LeCab needs some speaker 'profiles' called impulses. There's a pack of high quality ones here http://www.guitarampmodeling.com/vi...php?f=32&t=2631

You don't need a tubescreamer/boost VST but you might want one to tighten up your tone. You can find one in my previous post.

Then you need to create a path for your VSTs. I don't use Cubase but the pathway that I use in reaper is:
Tubescreamer/Boost VST>Amp Sim>Cab Sim

If you wan't to use any modulation you can place them after the cab sim.
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:08 PM   #13
Eryth
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^ This is the answer to your question. Others have raised valid points but disregarded your actual problem entirely.

You'll need a cabinet impulse to make the head plugin 'sound good' the same way you'd need an actual speaker cabinet for a real-life head/top to work. LeCab2 is a great plugin and there's tons of awesome cabinet and microphone impulses to be found all around these forums.

The '60 rock sound you're referring to is pretty much spot on regarding what's going on in your loop. The Beatles would plug a guitar into a mixer directly and put the input volume so high that it would overdrive the same way a tube head will overdrive your signal to achieve gain. A great example of this way to achieve a distorted tone is 'Now I Wanna Be Your Dog' (though it's not a Beatles song). This is exactly what you're doing by playing through an amp vst with overdrive without a cab. I imagine your tone sounds a lot like the Now I Wanna Be Your Dog tone - very gritty, a lot of high-end.

Guitar cabinet speakers are often designed to 'display' a lot of midrange. You could play a CD through a guitar cab but it wouldn't sound good, the same way (although reversed - it'll sound very muffled and gritty) a guitar head doesn't sound good without a cabinet. If you'd take the Beatles guitar recordings and throw them through a guitar speaker cabinet setup you'd probably get a fairly hearable 'modern' tone.
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Last edited by Eryth : 01-09-2014 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:56 PM   #14
downtuned123
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you guys have been awesome, this answers my questions pefectly. thank you all for taking the time to help out this recording newb!!!! \m/

cheers!
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Old 01-10-2014, 01:09 AM   #15
FaceFive
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My new amp will get you a metal tone muahahaha

Sound Demo


Get it here...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rs6mi9mpo...ios%20Razor.dll
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Old 01-10-2014, 01:31 AM   #16
downtuned123
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by FaceFive
I just wrote a little pluggo with the tones from the pantera album, if you wanna try it out.

Just 1 knob, so the tone is there lol

Final Version! (v3)

Dime In A Box, Dime has literally been in a box for ten years, but this is an amp sim not a coffin.

Had fun making it, I think i'm finished with it.

It emulates the rhythm tones from
the 5 Pantera Albums.

Grab it here! (PC VST 32bit)
http://www.dropbox.com/s/yt5ar5lhdr...ox%203%20V3.dll

Demo by Axell Strad ( Vulgar Display Of Power )
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32811273/Dime.mp3


i used this plugin, and the distortion is actually very good! I am not using any amp sim or cab sim, just this. however, i am confused as to why my clean channel is coming in on my right speaker, and the pantera distortion on my left. nothing on the track itself is panned to one direction or the other. I also tried arming 2 tracks, and panning 1 left and 1 right, both with the pantera plugin on them, and it still is only giving me distortion in 1 speaker, and my clean channel in the other, weird!! do you know how to fix this?
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Old 01-10-2014, 01:33 AM   #17
downtuned123
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueIceBox
Here's a pretty decent pack of VSTs which you can use in your DAW of choice:
http://www.simulanalog.org/guitarsuite.htm

- Boss DS-1 (Distortion stompbox)
- Boss SD-1 (Super Overdrive stompbox)
- Tube Screamer (Overdrive stompbox)
- Oberheim PS-1 (Phaser stompbox)
- Univox Univibe (Modulations stompbox)
- Fender Twin 1969 (Guitar amplifier)
- Marshall JCM900 Dual Reverb (Guitar amplifier)

I haven't tried the modulation pedals but the JCM900 with the Tube Screamer (along with decent impluses) sounds great! I'd say it sounds better than some of the models on my Vypyr. If there was zero latency I'd switch to using VSTs but alas even a little latency throws me off

Here's a video of someone showing it off:


Just to add, you will need to use a cabinet sim (LeCab does the job for me) and some decent speaker impluses (search for GuitarHacks impluses) otherwise it's just going to sounds fizzy and horrible.

i downloaded the guitarhacks impulses, which i believe will give me my cab sims (the last step for me i believe, since i already have a few amp head sims), but they are all .wav files, not .dll, so how do i load these sims into cubase?
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Old 01-10-2014, 01:41 AM   #18
downtuned123
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by FaceFive
My new amp will get you a metal tone muahahaha

Sound Demo


Get it here...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rs6mi9mpo...ios%20Razor.dll


thanks! what else are you running with this? i like the tone you have, when i try it, i get 1 speaker with the distortion (still fuzzy because i need to run a cab sim i believe? ), and one speaker is my original clean channel, not sure why.
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Old 01-10-2014, 01:52 AM   #19
FaceFive
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downtuned123
thanks! what else are you running with this? i like the tone you have, when i try it, i get 1 speaker with the distortion (still fuzzy because i need to run a cab sim i believe? ), and one speaker is my original clean channel, not sure why.


Dude I don't know what DAW you're using but you have to use a mono channel.

Here's the chain, Just the amp(old skin) and the cab


And my pantera sim is also mono, and it doesn't need a cab sim!
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Old 01-10-2014, 06:09 PM   #20
BlueIceBox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downtuned123
i downloaded the guitarhacks impulses, which i believe will give me my cab sims (the last step for me i believe, since i already have a few amp head sims), but they are all .wav files, not .dll, so how do i load these sims into cubase?


Those aren't cab sims, they are cab profiles. You need to download LeCab (which is a .dll file) to load those .wav files. Think of it like this, imagine with a modeling amp like a Vypyr or a Line6 pod, the amp models are the 'wav' files, and the actual things modeling the amps (the Vypyr or the pod themselves) are the dll files (LeCab in this case).
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