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Old 01-14-2014, 11:39 AM   #21
chatterbox272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macabre_Turtle
Any good tab gives you the rhythm, tempo, and time signature as well. The key signature is unnecessary in tablature, of course. They also have staccato, and articulation. There is seriously nothing that standard notation can do for accurately representing guitar music that tablature can't. And the notes themselves are of course clearly notated either way, but standard notation does not in any way illustrate the position. The 24th fret of the low E string looks the same as the open high E string in standard notation, despite creating vastly different sounds. That is where sheet music fails.

Most tablatures I've come across have one major flaw that I've found to be make or break for me on more than one occasion. Although they give rhythm, they make no distinction between a crotchet, minim, or semibreve (that is, 1/4 note, 1/2 note, and whole note). This means that if I'm reading something that has undergone a resize, or was simply printed poorly and I have 3 notes in a 4/4 bar I'm left to work out which one is the minim. And when you're sight-reading, by the time you've even worked out there's only 3 notes there you're playing the last note.

Also looking at more classic examples of music, I don't think there's any proper way to represent a cue in tablature (that is, another instrument's part written over the top of a section of rests).

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Originally Posted by Macabre_Turtle
Not that standard notation doesn't have it's benefits. I understand standard notation (I can't read it fluently, but I can work my way through). I can see a handful of uses, like, as I mentioned, if you want to learn a piece that wasn't written for guitar and thus potentially has no tablature. Or maybe you work in a music setting where you are writing music for people that play other types of music (in which case your motivation to understand sheet music is not even being influenced by the fact that you play guitar). But unless you are one of very very few people that are in one of those situations, I honestly find it useless.

Now I know tablature doesn't force it, but it definitely encourages a lack of knowledge of the individual notes being played. That can be bad if there is an error (not as uncommon as most people think), as you possibly won't even know what note you're playing let alone how it 'should' fit into the chord.

Also tablature makes alternate positioning (alternate fretting) much more annoying. For example I read an F# and I know exactly where I can play it on each string (and the two places I can play it on trombone). You give me D|--4- and I'm going to have to remember there's 5 frets difference and work out that it's then A|--9-. And forget about swapping to my trombone on that one, I'd have to write them all out.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:06 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by chatterbox272
Most tablatures I've come across have one major flaw that I've found to be make or break for me on more than one occasion. Although they give rhythm, they make no distinction between a crotchet, minim, or semibreve (that is, 1/4 note, 1/2 note, and whole note). This means that if I'm reading something that has undergone a resize, or was simply printed poorly and I have 3 notes in a 4/4 bar I'm left to work out which one is the minim. And when you're sight-reading, by the time you've even worked out there's only 3 notes there you're playing the last note.


Any good tablature (and I don't mean the shoddy impressive tabs people upload here. I'm talking about what you'll see in a book, or a Guitar Pro file) absolutely does make the distinction. I haven't looked at a regular, shoddy tab that gets made here in the last 6 years or so because I know that they are horrendous, but every guitar/bass tab book I own (somewhere between 20 and 30 of them) has the rhythm accurately and efficiently notated in the tablature, and so does every Guitar Pro file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chatterbox272
Also looking at more classic examples of music, I don't think there's any proper way to represent a cue in tablature (that is, another instrument's part written over the top of a section of rests).


Well, again, that's a good use of sheet music that will never actually be needed by the vast majority of guitar/bass players. I'm not a studio musician, and I don't play along with a non guitar based ensemble, and so I will likely never ever be handed a piece of standard notation sheet music.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chatterbox272
Now I know tablature doesn't force it, but it definitely encourages a lack of knowledge of the individual notes being played. That can be bad if there is an error (not as uncommon as most people think), as you possibly won't even know what note you're playing let alone how it 'should' fit into the chord.


"possibly won't even know what note you're playing let alone how it 'should' fit into the chord." I'm afraid I don't know what you're getting at there, to be honest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chatterbox272
Also tablature makes alternate positioning (alternate fretting) much more annoying. For example I read an F# and I know exactly where I can play it on each string (and the two places I can play it on trombone). You give me D|--4- and I'm going to have to remember there's 5 frets difference and work out that it's then A|--9-. And forget about swapping to my trombone on that one, I'd have to write them all out.


Maybe I'm just speaking for myself here, but I don't want alternate positioning. I want precision. A tab telling me D|--4- is being a lot more precise in what it wants from me than standard notation telling me F#. Guessing the wrong position because I read from standard notation can lead to a) a very different sound than intended, and b) not actually being able to play the bit without reading far ahead to see what other notes I'm going to need to hit. For an example of A, I recently learned a song with a melody that relied on hitting the same note on different strings as part of an arpeggio. The sound of this is very distinct and important. But in sheet music I would simply see that I'm being told to hit the same note twice, and I would not know that it was meant to be played in such a way. And for a further explanation of B, imagine your playing a piece of guitar music where your notes are all based around the lower frets of b-g-e strings. A few bars into that melody you find yourself needing to pedal point that melody off of the lower frets of the e-a-d strings. If you had read in standard notation where you were not told in what position to play that first set of notes, you may have chosen to play them in a higher position on the lower strings, and then when those pedal tones pop up you'd have no way to access them. In this case, it is the standard notation that requires the extra effort of being able to read far in advance, whereas tablature never requires that of you because you will always be in the right position.
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Old 01-27-2014, 04:28 AM   #23
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A metronome is just just an incredibly stripped down rhythm section

Anyone who has done both studio and live work will know that the two are very different when it comes to timing. In a studio you will need to be locked in and may have to re-do certain parts against a click. Live you can let it fly and you will find that, unless the drummer is playing with a click track, that your timing speeds up as a band.

I agree over-use of a metronome can lead to a robotic feel but metronomes are a brilliant tool in development of timing if used correctly. I think there was another thread recently where i suggested playing with a metronome but on a very low BPM so you have to stay in time with no click most of the time.
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Old 01-27-2014, 05:33 AM   #24
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I think we should kill this thread. This is an argument that no one will win. Jeff Berlin pushes enough people's buttons as it is. There is no need to help him out.
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Old 01-29-2014, 02:37 AM   #25
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God, telling musicians that they shouldn't practice with a metronome is like those hippies that say kids shouldn't do homework.

Jeff Berlin has always been an angry little man.

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I think we should kill this thread. This is an argument that no one will win. Jeff Berlin pushes enough people's buttons as it is. There is no need to help him out.


Please, it's the first real discussion this forum has had in months.
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Old 01-29-2014, 06:59 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by ozzyismetal
God, telling musicians that they shouldn't practice with a metronome is like those hippies that say kids shouldn't do homework.


I hardly ever did my homework and got 9 A Levels.... Just like I never play with a metronome and nobody has ever complained about my timing. Although that might be because I played drums for 4 years before taking up bass...


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Agreed, but still a decent bass player.
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Old 01-29-2014, 09:37 AM   #27
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I have nothing of value to add to my own thread.
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Old 01-30-2014, 08:48 AM   #28
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i rather use some drum recordings than metronome
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