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Old 01-28-2014, 09:52 AM   #41
Daviec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zappp
I want you to think outside of the current UG setup. Is there something that we don't have but would be actually helpful and useful? Something that would save your time and make your learning process more effective?

Something I would like is a backing track to play over alongside the tab so it saves me having to go find one.
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:57 AM   #42
Nero Galon
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I'll admit, some songs are a lot easier when learnt by video tutorials than tabs. I can't see it happening but perhaps allow Youtube embedded videos on tab pages. The only way I can see it being actually allowed is if the video is also the tab makers video. Hard to really enforce that?
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Old 01-28-2014, 10:01 AM   #43
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Last time I checked a Bassguitar was still a guitar. Then again UG can't help that there are so little.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nero Galon
I'll admit, some songs are a lot easier when learnt by video tutorials than tabs. I can't see it happening but perhaps allow Youtube embedded videos on tab pages. The only way I can see it being actually allowed is if the video is also the tab makers video. Hard to really enforce that?


Not really. I'd say just add a required field when submitting a tab to add a youtube video of the song you are submitting.
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Old 01-28-2014, 12:04 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zappp
Let me ask you about a couple other things:

When you say there is, in general, no major problems with the current UG setup can you say that UG successfully covers all your guitar needs? Meaning, when you want to learn a song or the song - Ultimate Guitar is all you need and that's the only active window in your browser during song learning process?

I want you to think outside of the current UG setup. Is there something that we don't have but would be actually helpful and useful? Something that would save your time and make your learning process more effective?

*random idea: wouldn't it be useful to have youtube video attached to each song so you can hear that song right now from tab page?*


For me it's usually youtube and UG so having a video of the song attached would be great.



Nothing really comes to mind other than having a youtube video in the tab, when the tab player sees a bend it only makes the sound of a half-step bend, even when it says in the tab that the bend is a full step. That's a pretty minor issue though.
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Old 01-28-2014, 01:55 PM   #45
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For me the biggest problem I find, especially with some of the harder material that's been tabbed, is that people vote on the tab without playing through it. They look at the tab and rate it 5 stars and say "looks great!" when it's anything but. I'm guessing it's fans of the band that aspire to play that type of music but aren't at that level yet but are still commenting and rating the tabs. Don't really think there's an easy fix to that, however but it would be nice if people would just actually learn the TAB before commenting/rating...
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Old 01-28-2014, 02:33 PM   #46
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1) I do mostly satisfied. Mid-to-small size bands still don't have consistently accurate tabs, and it's easier to work some of them out by ear (still haven't found a good tab for "Change Of Heart" by Insomnium, after checking for literally over half a decade). But I usually check UG first if there's something I want to learn, and they usually have it, which, to me, means UG is a success.

2) Usually, only version is accurate enough, and finding that one is a bit of a pain, but ratings help with that. The ratings aren't always reliable, though. If you're thinking of only showing the top-rated version, don't.

One more thing: the tabs are cluttered with "Tab Pro" versions. It would save space to just put a "Play in Tab Pro" link (or something) after (or before) the Guitar Pro versions, since the Tab Pro "versions" are really just existing Guitar Pro tabs that you can play online.

(PS: Insomnium fans, I'm working on an accurate "Change Of Heart" tab.)
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Old 01-28-2014, 03:34 PM   #47
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I agree to have a version history of all revisions done on a tab, corrections by others, etc.
And make the correction phase more fluently. Don't just make someone give a 1 star to that tab, and then keep that bad tab in the ether going around forever while new "corrected" ones show up.
If someone thinks a tab is bad, then he should tag it as incorrect, and should state why. If he also wishes, he can add a correction himself, which can be overseen by the tab creator, and maybe a jury or something? This jury (maybe just like the Tab Queue) decides if the correction goes or not. After it goes, the previous "tab is incorrect" stars get reset and it starts over.

I think maybe with Guitar Pro and Power Tab tabs this process might be more difficult though
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Old 01-28-2014, 03:47 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ximich
show
?

a) Yes
b) Those are all pretty universal "techniques", so no
c) Very few people try to get the exact tempo
d) No
e) No
Quote:
Originally Posted by zappp
show

2: I'd say there are plenty of problems with tab quality, but they're done for free by the users, so beggars can't be choosers. Besides, the ratings are higher than they should be a lot of the time, and does anyone actually use "report bad tab"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zappp
show

Other than pulling up YouTube (or iTunes or Spotify) for reference, yeah, that's it. And adding a YouTube embed (like last.fm does) would be a great idea.

E: spoilered the giant quote blocks
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Old 01-28-2014, 04:02 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ximich
We try to make our web site better for our users. Please reply on few short questions:
1. Do you satisfied with the quality of our tabs?
2. We have a lot of versions of one tab and are you intetested in it? Or do you need some more versions or may be division of this versions by complexity or some other options?

If you have some comments or suggestions for our tabs please feel free to tell us about it.


is this about the wiki idea to add to UG?



Edit: If it is: I think there's something to be said about the 'ego' factor mentioned for this topic. People are going to get pissed because they think it's perfect. Even looking at the 'Say Something', that is number two on the top 100. That tab is completely incorrect in regards to the verse. F#m instead of A, suggestions have been made in the comments, and I sent a PM, but no reply. I think this is where the wiki system would benefit. Here's the tab I was talking about. http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/a/a_great_big_wor ld/say_something_ver2_crd.htm

Same case here: http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/a/avicii/wake_me_ up_crd.htm

Number 14 on the top 100, but it is incomplete and incorrect, and that could easily mislead beginning musicians who do not know the difference, and that do not read the comments. The wiki system would help here for sure. I'm 14 now, but when I used this site, without registering, when I was 9, I was mislead by a lot of tabs, and that pushed my playing skills behind a lot.

Going to who should be able to edit: I think 50 or 75 tabs should be the minimum to who can edit. That way the people who are editing are experienced.

Edit 2: For those who don't know what I mean by the "Wiki" idea, look at this thread:
http://groups.ultimate-guitar.com/c...rs/forum/70379/
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Old 01-28-2014, 05:05 PM   #50
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One thing I would like is a way to get more votes on tabs. That would make tab ratings more accurate and helpful if you could find a way to do it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzaw
If someone thinks a tab is bad, then he should tag it as incorrect, and should state why. If he also wishes, he can add a correction himself, which can be overseen by the tab creator, and maybe a jury or something? This jury (maybe just like the Tab Queue) decides if the correction goes or not. After it goes, the previous "tab is incorrect" stars get reset and it starts over.



I think the only person who should be able to change something in a tab is the tab's creator or a super-mod/admin. I know I wouldn't want anybody touching one of my tabs without my permission. I work hard on some of them, the only person who should be allowed to change anything is me or someone who I would be honored to have change it.
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Old 01-28-2014, 05:32 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zappp
Let me ask you about a couple other things:

When you say there is, in general, no major problems with the current UG setup can you say that UG successfully covers all your guitar needs? Meaning, when you want to learn a song or the song - Ultimate Guitar is all you need and that's the only active window in your browser during song learning process?
Pretty much, yeah.

Quote:
I want you to think outside of the current UG setup. Is there something that we don't have but would be actually helpful and useful? Something that would save your time and make your learning process more effective?

*random idea: wouldn't it be useful to have youtube video attached to each song so you can hear that song right now from tab page?*
Actually, I've often thought of going back and posting a guitar cover for all of my songs. It would be pretty cool if it could be embedded. I've done a couple. And I'd imagine it would be pretty helpful. I'd imagine anyways. Again, tabber's perspective.

It would be a LOT of work for me though. Maybe if I could earn something for it? UG points? Idk. Just something to keep us motivated and appealed.
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Old 01-28-2014, 05:54 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Joshua Garcia
Pretty much, yeah.

Actually, I've often thought of going back and posting a guitar cover for all of my songs. It would be pretty cool if it could be embedded. I've done a couple. And I'd imagine it would be pretty helpful. I'd imagine anyways. Again, tabber's perspective.

It would be a LOT of work for me though. Maybe if I could earn something for it? UG points? Idk. Just something to keep us motivated and appealed.

Maybe similar to people who write articles on this website, you could get payed.
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Old 01-29-2014, 09:13 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Asecretchord
Maybe similar to people who write articles on this website, you could get payed.


Have you seen the quality of the articles recently? If anybody's getting paid for them then UG are being completely blind. The tabs are the only thing on this site that is as good as it can be. The tabs alone beat out the competition and get users into this site. Sadly, a lot of the rest of the website just doesn't get the care and attention that it needs.
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Old 01-29-2014, 01:58 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehbacon
I think the only person who should be able to change something in a tab is the tab's creator or a super-mod/admin. I know I wouldn't want anybody touching one of my tabs without my permission. I work hard on some of them, the only person who should be allowed to change anything is me or someone who I would be honored to have change it.


What if those corrections get supervised by you? E.g when someone posts the correction you get an email and a "Accept - Reject [Comment]" prompt, so you can...accept or reject that change?

The problem I find is the tab owner getting "cocky" and rejecting every correction that comes his way, even when the corrections improve the tab
But in that case, I guess you can leave the tab to have 1 stars then?

What I want is there to be less versions of tabs of a song, but be more accurate.
I don't want one version of the song to have the chords, another version to have the solo, another version to have the tricky licks in the verse, or whatever. I want one that has all, and everybody collaborates on that one.


How about this as an idea: Incorporate Tab Pro/Guitar Pro as an in-website app for tab collaboration.
Then every song in the UG archives can have a "special" collaborative Tab Pro tab in it. In this one, EVERY user can access the Tab Pro tab, and just add stuff in in an online mode. After they are done (they could save their progress and everything), they can send the changes to the tab owner. The tab owner can supervise these changes, accept them, and merge them together. You then end up with a single Tab Pro tab, where everybody can correct and improve over time.
You won't have a separate (ASCII) tab for the guitar, for the bass, for the solo, etc. You'll have a single Tab Pro one with everything in it, in the most accurate way possible.
This way, all the possible info about the tab is centralized, and if it has good votes you know it's good.
Even better, you don't need those "genius" tabbers to make them. Right now, I see lots of 5 star Guitar/Tab Pro tabs that are very very accurate and good, but are made only by a single user. I assume there are very few of this type of user, and they spend a lot of time with every tab of theirs. However, with this system, that type of user will spend less time on the tabs (because others will collaborate with him), therefore can put out more great tabs. Also, people less skilled in making tabs will have their work perfected by the community, making the quality of their tabs as good as the one from the "geniuses".
In the end, the net result is that you end up with more and more GREAT tabs. You also make people collaborate and work together which is always nice.

Yes, perhaps just include it to UG+ users, since they'd need access to Tab Pro, at least to a Tab Pro Editor (dunno if that exists yet, if not it might have to be implemented or have a deal with the company that does it, dunno how it works in UG haha).

Also, maybe in this case, you could include Tab Pro free for any UG user? Or any user in general? At least just the "Playback" mode (not Editor mode).
I've seen lots of sites who have similar playback apps that can be accessed by any user and guest. If not this system will kind of fail, since nobody basically will be able to access these tabs.

And of course, every user and guest should be able to easily export said tab to ASCII, or Guitar Pro, etc. But all from a SINGLE TAB.

When this system is put into place, you can then keep improving it over and over. Include a ranking system (maybe just use the UG collaboration points, or maybe another one) for people that collaborate. E.g the more corrections you make and stuff you include in the tab (that is accepted), the more points you get. If you added 3 bars to the tab, you get 3 points; if you added 30 bars to the tab, you get 30 points; stuff like that.
Maybe you can use this new point system to discuss what I was stating before: What if the tab owner sucks and ruins a good collaboration because he gets cocky or asshole-ish or just plain ****s up the tab? Well, maybe you can make it so that users with high amount of points (maybe 1000 for example), are able to take control of specific tabs, accept their corrections, merges, etc, like if they were "Tab moderators". By "moderating" these tabs successfully, they'd get more points in return too, etc.

There could also be "mini-forums" for discussions about the tab. There could be a display of the version history of the tab, with every single previous version of it. These versions can be downloaded by anyone, because it doesn't hurt (if for example someone didn't really like a specific correction, well, he can download a previous version). The tab owner or "Tab moderators" should also be able to go back to a previous version if the current one gets too ****ed up somehow.

I mean, yes, this seems like a LOT of work; but well, baby steps no?
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Old 01-29-2014, 02:49 PM   #55
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My comments are underlined because I'm lazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzaw
What if those corrections get supervised by you? E.g when someone posts the correction you get an email and a "Accept - Reject [Comment]" prompt, so you can...accept or reject that change?
A lot of tabs are from people who don't check UG anymore, and can't be bothered to moderate anything on a site they don't check anymore, for an instrument they don't play anymore.

The problem I find is the tab owner getting "cocky" and rejecting every correction that comes his way, even when the corrections improve the tab
But in that case, I guess you can leave the tab to have 1 stars then?
See above. I don't think tabbers are generally that egocentric, they're just likely to run off and give up on guitar.

What I want is there to be less versions of tabs of a song, but be more accurate.
I don't want one version of the song to have the chords, another version to have the solo, another version to have the tricky licks in the verse, or whatever. I want one that has all, and everybody collaborates on that one.
Hell yes. This is a good case for some type of collaboration.


How about this as an idea: Incorporate Tab Pro/Guitar Pro as an in-website app for tab collaboration.
That's basically Songsterr. UG vs Songsterr is a weird case, because Songsterr has more current technology, but UG has a bigger user base and more (and better) tabs, which leads to Songsterr stealing tabs from UG without crediting it.

Then every song in the UG archives can have a "special" collaborative Tab Pro tab in it. In this one, EVERY user can access the Tab Pro tab, and just add stuff in in an online mode. After they are done (they could save their progress and everything), they can send the changes to the tab owner. The tab owner can supervise these changes, accept them, and merge them together. You then end up with a single Tab Pro tab, where everybody can correct and improve over time.
You won't have a separate (ASCII) tab for the guitar, for the bass, for the solo, etc. You'll have a single Tab Pro one with everything in it, in the most accurate way possible.
UG intended Tab Pro as a premium service when they started it, probably to make up lost advertising revenue to keep the site running and pay the bandwidth bills. But considering the community reaction to Tab Pro, plus the fact that all the contributors get it free anyway, maybe it's time to change that?

This way, all the possible info about the tab is centralized, and if it has good votes you know it's good.
Nobody votes, though, and when they do, they vote high.
Even better, you don't need those "genius" tabbers to make them. Right now, I see lots of 5 star Guitar/Tab Pro tabs that are very very accurate and good, but are made only by a single user. I assume there are very few of this type of user, and they spend a lot of time with every tab of theirs. However, with this system, that type of user will spend less time on the tabs (because others will collaborate with him), therefore can put out more great tabs. Also, people less skilled in making tabs will have their work perfected by the community, making the quality of their tabs as good as the one from the "geniuses".
In the end, the net result is that you end up with more and more GREAT tabs. You also make people collaborate and work together which is always nice.

Also, maybe in this case, you could include Tab Pro free for any UG user? Or any user in general? At least just the "Playback" mode (not Editor mode).
Agreed. See above.

It looks like the main point of your post is that UG needs to be more like Songsterr. That's what all the talk about collaboration is about in the end: Songsterr and sites like it. And even if that probably doesn't sound that appealing, think of what UG could do if if added some type of collaboration, and maybe rebranded itself accordingly. UG has the bigger (and more skilled) userbase by far, and that's something that few other sites have and is really hard to build. All it's missing is the technology to help them collaborate. It'd blow everything else out of the water.

E: By the way, literally every tab I've seen on Songsterr so far was stolen from UG. The matching UG tabs have the same basic mistakes (like wrong notes/tuning/tempo/key), time markers, and even links to the tabber's YouTube channel or whatever. That's how much better our user base is than Songsterr; they get literally all their content from us. And that's something no other site can easily build.

Derpsterr isn't even using its wiki format to its full potential. Or even at all. The stolen UG tabs have zero revisions from the versions we have. So much wasted potential. Over here, most tabs have at least one correction in the comments. We would beat them at their own game if we had collaborative tabbing.
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Old 01-29-2014, 03:12 PM   #56
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Hmm, wow, yes, seems I'm thinking something very close to Songsterr (I think it was from that site that I noticed the embedded "Tab Pro-style" playback app).

However, it can indeed be done in a different way than Songsterr perhaps (although I haven't checked it out fully).
Either way, the tab system does need some technological advances, yes.

I'm also thinking about, still having different "versions" of the same tab, but when they actually are different tabs for different versions of the song.
For example, there can be a collaborative tab for the full song, with all the instruments being accurately represented. Then there can be another collaborative tab for an acoustic version of the song, which only has 1 guitar track.
There could be a system, where each tab creator messages a mod and tells him he wishes to add a new version to said tab. He then gives said tab to the mod and shows to him how it's different than the previous versions that are already there (because if not, he could just go and collaborate on those versions instead).
So maybe you have the "full song" version, the acoustic version, maybe the accordion version, or the cowbell version, etc who knows?
Even if the new system will improve the already existing one, you don't want to take away the flexibility the current system has.
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Old 01-29-2014, 03:29 PM   #57
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I think Songsterr (and similar sites) is what UG had in mind, too, but it's not a matter of playing catch-up, as much as showing them how to do it right. (It should be pretty obvious that I think Songsterr sucks.)
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Old 01-29-2014, 05:53 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zappp
I want you to think outside of the current UG setup. Is there something that we don't have but would be actually helpful and useful?

How about implementing better categories in the Review section? There have been dozens of requests for a Recording & Studio Equipment section in the reviews over the years, but they have constantly been ignored. There are loads of people on UG who are into recording and loads more who ask about the different kit, having reviews to send people to would be an extremely valuable resource.
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Old 01-29-2014, 06:20 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zappp
Let me ask you about a couple other things:

When you say there is, in general, no major problems with the current UG setup can you say that UG successfully covers all your guitar needs? Meaning, when you want to learn a song or the song - Ultimate Guitar is all you need and that's the only active window in your browser during song learning process?


Only other active tabs I really have open when I'm learning a song on UG is either lyrics(if they're not in the tab), the song on youtube, and the forums.
In other words, I've never found/used a tab site more helpful than UG
Easily my go to choice
Quote:
Originally Posted by zappp
I want you to think outside of the current UG setup. Is there something that we don't have but would be actually helpful and useful? Something that would save your time and make your learning process more effective?

*random idea: wouldn't it be useful to have youtube video attached to each song so you can hear that song right now from tab page?*


That would be brilliant!

can't really think of anything I'd really do to improve the setup, other than being able link videos.

Maybe if you could set parameters for the autoscroll? so if you were trying to learn a particularly big tab and needed the autoscroll, but didn't want to set down your guitar to grab your mouse and scroll back up when it got too far down. it would automatically jump to wherever you choose it to and start moving down at the same pace you chose to the point you chose where it would jump back up again
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Old 01-29-2014, 06:42 PM   #60
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Quality control has always been the number one problem with this website. Too much crap gets through and somehow maintains positive voting.
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