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Old 02-14-2014, 06:12 PM   #41
Dave_Mc
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Originally Posted by ninjamunky85
If the OP wants to buy a Gibson then he should buy a Gibson. I just don't think it's the best move for a beginner. I went through a few guitars before I started to learn what I really liked in a guitar. Why spend all that money when he might find out a month later that he doesn't like V guitars, or even that playing guitar isn't for him?


yeah it'll be real hard to sell a gibson.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjamunky85
(a) So you're saying that the amp is very important, and then you recommend a cheap modelling amp?

(b) I started out with a cheap anp and a multi-effects pedal. If I could do it all over I would start with a small tube amp in the 5-15 watt range, then add some quality pedals down the line. That will sound better than a modelling amp any day.


(a) yep exactly.

way too many guitar players ignore the amp, but lurching to the other extreme (basically ignoring the guitar) is equally silly if you ask me.

(b) So you suggest he not get the gibson in case he doesn't like gibsons, but then suggest he get an amp which will likely suffer from the same problem (i.e. maybe being too specialised before he realises what he wants)?

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Old 02-14-2014, 07:17 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
That guitar is a piece of crap. You will absolutely hate yourself for buying that over a Gibson V.

I've actually played that guitar. Well, not that Michael Schenker V, but I played a Dean Dimebolt ML which was owned by a friend, which for the most part is constructed the exact same way and out of the same quality materials, despite the body shape and graphics being very different. Horrible guitar to play and sounded really muddy. The only redeeming feature was that it stayed in tune OK, not great, but OK. But the neck was so poorly finished it literally felt like I was rubbing my hand up and down a patio deck.

For $750, you could actually buy a Gibson V used. But just be aware that you're always taking a gamble with used guitars, so if you aren't willing to get used guitars, I can understand that.

Yay! We actually have an amp budget!

For $750, you can get yourself a Peavey JSX, which is a great amp for achieving a bright, crunchy, in your face tone that was so popular in the 80's. Then you could buy a Harley Benton 212 with Celestion V30's. They're really good value cabinets.



This is the top advice in this thread in my opinion.

Go to a store and get yourself a second hand Gibson V.
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:35 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Supernaut2k
This is the top advice in this thread in my opinion.

Go to a store and get yourself a second hand Gibson V.



This, or pick up a intermediate $500 guitar, I wouldn't start off with high end as a beginner, it's bad luck in my opinion.
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Old 02-14-2014, 08:24 PM   #44
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If you're not gigging (Chances are no since you haven't learned to actually play yet) than a simple low wattage amp (maybe some built in effects) are you'll need till you can play. Then once you get together with other players you can pick an amp that'll work for jamming/gigging. No sense cranking a Marshall in your bedroom.
As for your guitar choice, it's your money and get what you want. You don't need to spend that much to start by any means but the guitar will work with any amp you end up needing.
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Old 02-14-2014, 09:26 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by diabolical
On the Dean - even their top guitar are bad. Played one of the expensive Dime's ($1500) and it was utter crap, very bad workmanship. Michael Schenker was changing guitars almost after every song when I saw him on tour so even his can't be that good.


I most wholeheartedly disagree.

I own a Time Capsule Cadillac and I'd put its quality up against other guitars in the same price range from all the other big-name makers.

As for MS, a lot of guitarists do that. It probably has more to do with tunings for songsor showing off their favorite guitars than with having bad guitars. First of all, he's a pro who has been at it for a long time- no way he's going to tour with crappy gear. Second, just because it says Dean on the headstock doesn't mean he's actually playing a Dean- lots of pros have guitars made for them by luthiers with other company's logos on them. (Billy Gibbons has done this quite a bit.)

Is it possible e $1500 Dean you played a piece of crap? Sure. I've tried even pricier guitars by other brands that I never wanted to touch again. OTOH, there's a New Orleans bluesman whose cheap Squier (and the amp it came with) earned him enough money to put a roof over his head and pay for a collection of guitars that would shame most of the people on these boards.

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Old 02-14-2014, 09:35 PM   #46
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I'm going to end up going to a guitar store and try a few out. Can someone tell me if its like a car dealership or a done deal number? Also I'm trying to nail down an amp since no testing out seems to be required. The Peavey JSX has been listed multiple times. There is a couple on ebay in the $500 price range but after looking at a few websites they vary from $100-1000's. Can someone list more details on that amp with a $500-$750 budget in mind? Thanks.
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Old 02-14-2014, 09:50 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Glamdan
If I went the route that is being suggested with a cheap guitar what would a good amp go for assuming I would upgrade the guitar to a better one in the near future?

And again with the V I am not dead set on it just asking for suggestions. It looks like and is named after the style of music I like so I didn't know if that would make it any more or less difficult to learn since those are the type of songs I would want to play.


I can't say that I agree with the folks who are recommending that you try out a bunch of guitars. Truth is, as a beginner you have no idea what you're trying or what you should be looking for, so what's the point?

I don't agree with the folks who are suggesting a cheap guitar and a good amp, either. I'd go with the best guitar you can afford and something -- anything -- as an amp. And I'd make sure that you had a really good set up on the guitar. The guitar is where the rubber meets the road. It's where you develop your motor skills. It's the brain-music interface. It's really the no-excuses point.

Your amp may not sound like your favorite band yet, but the techniques you learn with your two hands are far more important and useful in the long run.

My first guitar was a '67 Gibson ES-335. I was lucky enough to have been a keyboardist in a couple of good bands long before I picked up guitar. My guitar players sat down with me and taught me, and after that it was up to me to put in the hours of practice. I had full faith and confidence that when I plugged the guitar in, it would sound great. I still have that guitar, many years later, and it still sounds great. I've got about 15 tube amps sitting around, along with a bunch of modeling gear, and no matter which amp I'm using, I never have to worry about the guitar's quality. More importantly, it's become very much like an extension of my nervous system.

Amps come and go. I've played that guitar through Vox SuperBeatles, Fender Super Reverbs, old Fender Twins, Fender Dual Showmans, Rickenbacker Transonics (look THAT one up), Two-Rocks, Dr Zs, Carvin XV112Es, Marshall JTMs, Standells, Acoustics, Plush and Kustoms, Randalls, Egnaters (the custom builds, not the Chinese things at GC), almost anything at the LA Amp Show, lord knows what else. Most often an artist and his guitar seem to go together. You know what BB King plays, and Clapton and Page and Slash and Phil Collen and all those. At any given venue and on any given night, the amp(s) can vary wildly. I walked under the stage at a Clapton concert and found a circle of five different amps, all miked. The guitar, though, was his iconic old ES-335. I walked behind the stage at a metal concert that featured a wall of marshalls and found that the guitarist was playing through a single head and 2x12, with a duplicate beneath it ready to go as a backup. The wall of marshalls was fake.

Start with a good guitar. You'll never regret it.

Last edited by dspellman : 02-14-2014 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:44 PM   #48
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**** I wish that I had $3000 to buy a new guitar, and amp I wouldn't even suggest buying such an expensive guitar you won't appreciate it trust me on this. Just start out with a $400 guitar like a jazz master or something. There was one guy that posted on this forum who had a super expensive Gibson he learned how to play a couple of power chords on it and decided to quit lmfao!!!
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:00 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by dspellman
I can't say that I agree with the folks who are recommending that you try out a bunch of guitars. Truth is, as a beginner you have no idea what you're trying or what you should be looking for, so what's the point?

I don't agree with the folks who are suggesting a cheap guitar and a good amp, either. I'd go with the best guitar you can afford and something -- anything -- as an amp. And I'd make sure that you had a really good set up on the guitar. The guitar is where the rubber meets the road. It's where you develop your motor skills. It's the brain-music interface. It's really the no-excuses point.

Your amp may not sound like your favorite band yet, but the techniques you learn with your two hands are far more important and useful in the long run.

My first guitar was a '67 Gibson ES-335. I was lucky enough to have been a keyboardist in a couple of good bands long before I picked up guitar. My guitar players sat down with me and taught me, and after that it was up to me to put in the hours of practice. I had full faith and confidence that when I plugged the guitar in, it would sound great. I still have that guitar, many years later, and it still sounds great. I've got about 15 tube amps sitting around, along with a bunch of modeling gear, and no matter which amp I'm using, I never have to worry about the guitar's quality. More importantly, it's become very much like an extension of my nervous system.

Amps come and go. I've played that guitar through Vox SuperBeatles, Fender Super Reverbs, old Fender Twins, Fender Dual Showmans, Rickenbacker Transonics (look THAT one up), Two-Rocks, Dr Zs, Carvin XV112Es, Marshall JTMs, Standells, Acoustics, Plush and Kustoms, Randalls, Egnaters (the custom builds, not the Chinese things at GC), almost anything at the LA Amp Show, lord knows what else. Most often an artist and his guitar seem to go together. You know what BB King plays, and Clapton and Page and Slash and Phil Collen and all those. At any given venue and on any given night, the amp(s) can vary wildly. I walked under the stage at a Clapton concert and found a circle of five different amps, all miked. The guitar, though, was his iconic old ES-335. I walked behind the stage at a metal concert that featured a wall of marshalls and found that the guitarist was playing through a single head and 2x12, with a duplicate beneath it ready to go as a backup. The wall of marshalls was fake.

Start with a good guitar. You'll never regret it.



I don't always agree with your point of view but sometimes I agree 100%. This is one of those times. Some fairly famous guitar players tour with their favourite guitars and rely on the venue to provide the amps (BB KIng comes to mind immediately). Well stated on your part!
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:13 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Black_devils
**** I wish that I had $3000 to buy a new guitar, and amp I wouldn't even suggest buying such an expensive guitar you won't appreciate it trust me on this. Just start out with a $400 guitar like a jazz master or something. There was one guy that posted on this forum who had a super expensive Gibson he learned how to play a couple of power chords on it and decided to quit lmfao!!!


I co-owned a Bar & Grill with my dad. One thing I learned is handling finances. To continually upgrade this guitar and that guitar and this amp and that amp will cost more money in the long run and you still won't have what you really want. 1 big debate I have noticed among many threads is a shit vs good guitar for a beginner. The ladder gives you more pride and motivation to learn and play it. That is my perspective. I am more worried about playability and learning it as to going from dirt to riches.
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:30 AM   #51
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Don't buy a high end guitar when your beginning, you'll get discouraged very easily when your playing a work of art and it sounds like shit, it's all psychological but it does get to some people. If you want to shell out some money, buy a mid ranged guitar for 600-800 dollars. My first guitar was a Schecter Blackjack ATX C-1 and i used it for a good 2-3 years before i upgraded to my Ibanez UV777, you can't appreciate a quality guitar until you actually know how to play one imo. I used that guitar in every show i ever played in over that period and it did me well, great sounding, solid, stayed in tune and was easy to play. Every person i know who bought expensive equipment before they knew how to play never ended up sticking at guitar or music for that matter.
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Old 02-15-2014, 01:08 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Glamdan
I co-owned a Bar & Grill with my dad. One thing I learned is handling finances. To continually upgrade this guitar and that guitar and this amp and that amp will cost more money in the long run and you still won't have what you really want. 1 big debate I have noticed among many threads is a shit vs good guitar for a beginner. The ladder gives you more pride and motivation to learn and play it. That is my perspective. I am more worried about playability and learning it as to going from dirt to riches.



Dude a $400 is extremely playable, but hey if you want to spend that much then be my guest I've played a $300 acoustic that's sounded better than a $1500 taylor lol...
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Old 02-15-2014, 01:11 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by maowcat
Don't buy a high end guitar when your beginning, you'll get discouraged very easily when your playing a work of art and it sounds like shit, it's all psychological but it does get to some people. If you want to shell out some money, buy a mid ranged guitar for 600-800 dollars. My first guitar was a Schecter Blackjack ATX C-1 and i used it for a good 2-3 years before i upgraded to my Ibanez UV777, you can't appreciate a quality guitar until you actually know how to play one imo. I used that guitar in every show i ever played in over that period and it did me well, great sounding, solid, stayed in tune and was easy to play. Every person i know who bought expensive equipment before they knew how to play never ended up sticking at guitar or music for that matter.


Exactly my point a $600 would be more then good enough shit dude I have a $447 telecaster and it sounds great! It's not about the price man just because a guitar is more expensive doesn't mean it's going to be more playable, but like I stated above if you want to go out, and shell out that money then go ahead but to me it just seems pointless.
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Old 02-15-2014, 02:30 AM   #54
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Old 02-15-2014, 02:48 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Glamdan
I co-owned a Bar & Grill with my dad. One thing I learned is handling finances. To continually upgrade this guitar and that guitar and this amp and that amp will cost more money in the long run and you still won't have what you really want. 1 big debate I have noticed among many threads is a shit vs good guitar for a beginner. The ladder gives you more pride and motivation to learn and play it. That is my perspective. I am more worried about playability and learning it as to going from dirt to riches.


Excellent points. Notice that when I mentioned buying a good guitar, though, I didn't say "expensive." There are some amazingly good guitars out there for well under $1000, and my gigging bar guitars both arrived, used, with pricetags of under $200 apiece. I could play these anywhere and be proud of them. But here's the catch. As a beginner, it's going to be difficult for you to know what's a really good inexpensive guitar and what's a piece of junk. That's probably true of a lot of things, now that I think about it -- the more experience you have, the easier it is to winnow the wheat from the chaff. It's also worth noting that I spent about $200 each on those guitars getting a PLEK setup done by a really good tech (Gary Brawer in SF, for what it's worth). The setups cost more than the guitars did, but the resultant playability is as good as anything you can buy. If you do NOT have that experience, however, buying an expensive guitar might be a good way to cheat on that. That's what I did (story above) with my first guitar and it wasn't a mistake. I think you're on the right track.
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Old 02-15-2014, 07:21 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Glamdan
I co-owned a Bar & Grill with my dad. One thing I learned is handling finances. To continually upgrade this guitar and that guitar and this amp and that amp will cost more money in the long run and you still won't have what you really want. 1 big debate I have noticed among many threads is a shit vs good guitar for a beginner. The ladder gives you more pride and motivation to learn and play it. That is my perspective. I am more worried about playability and learning it as to going from dirt to riches.




Outside of few starter pack recommendations nobody here is saying you should get a shit guitar. For 500$-1000$ you can get excellent guitars. You seem to be under impression that Gibson is the best there is. Now, I have never owned Gibson but what I have gathered the consensus is that they have a lot of air in their prices. A lot of it goes to the name and traditional designs (like Nitro finish, which if its a good thing is highly questionable) and so on. You can get equal quality guitar, even better ones, for cheaper. Japanese and mid-higher end Korean made are far from shitty guitars

And dannyalcatraz also made good recommendations. If you want quality guitars also look at the lesser known names. Guitars like Reverend or Godin and so on, they do not have same "big name" status as Gibson or ESP or such has that increases prices so often they do offer a lot of guitar for bit less money.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:55 AM   #57
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$250 on a plek setup for $200 guitars just sounds a ridiculous waste of money as there are a lot of other things to go wrong on these planks - the cheap electronics, the cheap composite wood, the cheap hardware...but whatever rocks your boat.
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:52 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Glamdan
I co-owned a Bar & Grill with my dad. One thing I learned is handling finances. To continually upgrade this guitar and that guitar and this amp and that amp will cost more money in the long run and you still won't have what you really want. 1 big debate I have noticed among many threads is a shit vs good guitar for a beginner. The ladder gives you more pride and motivation to learn and play it. That is my perspective. I am more worried about playability and learning it as to going from dirt to riches.


Smoke em if you've got em. My Sister always wanted a Gibson SG and that's not what she bought first, at the end of 2012 she got one and she absolutely loves it. She's absolutely set now, every time she looks at a guitar she says "I don't really need it because I've got my SG" If a Gibson V is "the one" and you can get it, I say go for it. As you said, you will save money just buying it from the get go.

I learned on a starter amp pack but I'd have bought my dream guitar if I had the money. Pride etc comes from within I knew I wanted to shred and I did, back then I didn't know if my guitar was good or bad and I didn't think it made any difference I just played. Everyone starts off bad anyway, I was flat out terrible but I knew basically all of that was on me not my guitar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabolical
$250 on a plek setup for $200 guitars just sounds a ridiculous waste of money as there are a lot of other things to go wrong on these planks - the cheap electronics, the cheap composite wood, the cheap hardware...but whatever rocks your boat.


Yeah I've been buying entry level guitars lately and the last one I got I had to level and crown. I'll put the work in (that's the fun of buying them!) but I wouldn't pay for it. A good fret job really does make a huge difference though, that's where I think the "feel" comes, from vibrato and bends just glide.
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Old 02-15-2014, 01:23 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by dspellman
(a) I can't say that I agree with the folks who are recommending that you try out a bunch of guitars. Truth is, as a beginner you have no idea what you're trying or what you should be looking for, so what's the point?

(b) I don't agree with the folks who are suggesting a cheap guitar and a good amp, either. I'd go with the best guitar you can afford and something -- anything -- as an amp. And I'd make sure that you had a really good set up on the guitar. The guitar is where the rubber meets the road. It's where you develop your motor skills. It's the brain-music interface. It's really the no-excuses point.

Your amp may not sound like your favorite band yet, but the techniques you learn with your two hands are far more important and useful in the long run.


(a) That's what I always wonder

(b) I don't think you should ignore the amp- getting something which sounds the way you want will help a ton, too. But you can get amps which will sound the way you want still for fairly cheap (e.g. the modellers mentioned).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dspellman
But here's the catch. As a beginner, it's going to be difficult for you to know what's a really good inexpensive guitar and what's a piece of junk. That's probably true of a lot of things, now that I think about it -- the more experience you have, the easier it is to winnow the wheat from the chaff.


agreed.
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Old 02-16-2014, 06:43 PM   #60
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A guitar is only as good as the setup. I played alot of lowend ibanez rg's for many years, and finally got a free gibson les paul. I thought i would love it, but then realized the neck scale length and string spacing was too small compared to what i learned on. So my suggestion would be literally look at every catalog u can, learn about the specs and compare in ur mind, then go into a huge music store with the knowledge u gathered and compare the feel. You will discover that even guitars with the same specs dont ever feel or sound the same. I have 3 of the same exact guitar, and they are all setup the same, but feel and sound and play different. Luckily we are here to help. There arw pros and cons of being a beginner. Pros are you are using ur imagination to get a piece of gear u desire. Cons are u may fuggun hate the shape, scale length, and neck heavyness of the v shape. But until u try out a bunch of stuff, my advice is buy something cheap. Just get a cheap v. If u hate it, small loss. I went through a bunch of guitars before deciding what i really wanted shape and setup wise. I got 11 japanese rgs now and sold the korean and indonesian ones. I found mine. Hope u find yours.
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