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Old 03-06-2014, 07:33 PM   #41
StewieSwan
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Plot-twist: Obama already won it despite being an awful warmonger himself.
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Old 03-06-2014, 08:19 PM   #42
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^And the Anti-Christ
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Old 03-06-2014, 08:20 PM   #43
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Old 03-06-2014, 08:23 PM   #44
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This seems counter-intuitive especially on the grounds of what the nobel peace prize represents.

I guess they're just giving them away so they can use them at chucky cheese.
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Old 03-06-2014, 08:59 PM   #45
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As far as I know, the Nobel committee isn't responsible for the nominations; they are submitted to them and then they evaluate them.
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Old 03-06-2014, 09:23 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by progdude93
I mean, yeah, you can. Obviously I'm making a generalization, which is why I said "the muslim world." There are absolutely exceptions. But Islam is one of the only religions that actually owns countries (obviously there's the Vatican, and lots of Christians in lots of countries, but I don't think they count as legitimate theocracies, and the Vatican is irrelevant to this discussion.

And you were the one who said "Muslim world." It's the part of your post I bolded and took the most issue with.

I meant it in the sense that the "muslim world" is HUGE. Difference between Pakistan and Qatar, or Egypt and Bosnia, is pretty big. Widely different cultures and sects in each location.

I said it because that's the language used by Obama. He was talking about the prejudices against muslims. But I'm saying he improved the Middle East, which although largely muslim, certainly doesn't include the entirety of the "muslim world". Different uses, you see.

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I said Muslim world, not Arab world (and so did you in the post I quoted). You're changing around who we're talking about at will, which is basically cheating at arguments. And I maybe wasn't clear enough in saying "we don't get credit and even get blamed..." I should've stuck a "sometimes" or "often" before "even get blamed."

Once again, that's because the "muslim world" is freaking HUGE. But yeah, it just seemed like you thought it's ALWAYS a 'damned if you do' thing. It's not, really. Often-times it depends on how the media here wants to portray events (the majority of our media is pretty much Fox news in that they can spread misinformation and work largely on fear).


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Yeah, so you're saying they gave him an award because they were pretty confident he would do good things and not bad things?

How is it that Obama condones drone strikes that have taken out civilians and yet is all-too-ready to criticize any other country for attacking an enemy base in the middle of a civilian population?

I'm not saying "obama is a terrorist lul," but he signs off on some shit that he condemns in other people and tries to play it off like he's still doing his own distinct thing.

I'm not either, and I'm not saying that drone strikes are a good thing, but I just don't see them as defining his administration. I think the US military or intelligence would've been using more drones regardless of his say or his election.



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Bush was INCREDIBLY idealistic, saying, "This is wrong, we're not going to take it, and we're going to democratize the SHIT out of these people."

Whether or not you agree with his methods (I don't, and obviously you don't), that's obviously highly idealistic. As Obama was elected as the anti-Bush, I expected him to be a lot less idealistic. Didn't he run saying he'd end the engagement in Iraq? I don't see how anyone would've had those expectations.

The groundwork was laid (unintentionally) by Bush. Since he was doing it in such a way that people strongly and loudly disapproved of, doing the opposite would be immediately well received. Hell, he got the Nobel Prize for TALKING about doing the opposite. What a guy.

I know, that's why I put him in contrast to his predecessor Obama's not an idealist when it comes to foreign policy. He doesn't want to "democratize". He'll promote democracy and issue condemnations but won't fight for it in a 10 year war. He values diplomacy because that way there's less spending, and less of a chance of the US being blamed of something. He's tried alternative ways to all this, the seemingly catchy "express support without really supporting".


Well, yeah, I agree. No one likes the guy who severely injured the world's economy, everyone likes whoever's against him. It seems logical that people would cheer for whoever says he won't be "that guy".



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Shit wasn't always that way. Before the Taliban came around, Afghanistan wasn't such a shitty place. America wasn't at war with anything Arab; it was the government using its circumstances to increase its power (because THIS time, they've got it right), which is something basically every government does, including the Obama Administration. But that last part is a sidepoint and largely irrelevant.

Obama did not increase globalization, or use globalization to suit his goals. America's status as a cultural superpower did that. Obviously, American culture isn't global culture, but when any enemy culture seeps into another country, they begin to have more positive views on it in virtue of their increased exposure. That's why there are the radical Imams (since you'll probably try and nitpick, I'm going to specifically say that plenty of Imams aren't radical) who so strongly resist ALL western influence. Because once the levees start to leak a bit, you know it's only a matter of time before they go.

Islamist recruitment has been decreasing since well before Bush. I'm pretty sure it was after they beat the Soviets/Russians, but I'm not 100% on that. It spiked after the incursion into Iraq, but that was temporary. It had little to do with Obama, and a lot to do with how radical Muslims would kill innocent Muslim bystanders in the name of Jihad. They also didn't really approve of how radicals would target civilians in general, but the fact that terrorists killed their own people in the quest for Jihad REALLY made them seem dishonest and hypocritical. Murdering their own people to save their own people? Seems pretty unlegit.

Yeah, but public opinion on Arabs couldn't exactly be described as positive post-9/11. But the Bush and Blair administrations sought to capitalize on this. Negative depictions of Arabs in the media had been rampant then.


I honestly couldn't name a single imam. Don't care 'bout religious leaders, but the depiction of myself in media, and the generalizations and stereotypes I'm attached to. But that's true, there are people who strongly oppose western influence here. But I doubt there are many younger generations that don't embrace it, especially the middle class.


And Islamist recruitment has gone up. Even support for Islamists has gone up, as with hate and resentment towards Islamism. The middle east is sort of split right now between Islamists wanting to establish rule, every country's military and younger generations who dislike both sides. This doesn't have anything to do with Obama (although you can expect that I heard people say it is, cuz racism).

And that's not really what Islamists do. They don't just murder people in the quest for Jihad, cuz that's not a thing. They have affiliations and interests beyond idealism, they're political movements after all. Groups like Al Qaeda aren't really Islamists, I think, they're more under the 'global terrorist' umbrella. Islamists like the Muslim Brotherhood have gained power and lost it here in like 2 years, nothing to do with Obama. But promoting the dialogue of "Not all Muslims are Islamists" and stuff is the biggest thing he's done here, in that he improved the US's image, supported democratic movements without firing a single shot and all that jazz. Deserving of a Nobel peace price? Donno. Compared to Putin's influence on the Middle East? Give him three or four more.
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Old 03-06-2014, 09:24 PM   #47
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He deserves it. A great man.


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Old 03-06-2014, 09:38 PM   #48
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obama ****ed up and stupidly issued that redline statement and putin was a bro and gave him a way out. also a black belt in judo, performs piano recitals and swims in russian rivers.

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Old 03-06-2014, 09:57 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Cianyx
obama ****ed up and stupidly issued that redline statement and putin was a bro and gave him a way out.

Not really. The Assad regime lost all their chemical weapons, Russia's still heavily invested in an ally that's driven the country's economy to ruins and has to financially support this ally during its own economic strife, not to mention provide military support since he can't even afford to feed his army. Russia becomes a little more isolated and Syria becomes a lot more isolated. Two shells of countries that were once great spending and fueling a war that doesn't look to be over anytime soon.


...while the US spends peanuts, relatively speaking.


Obama didn't **** up. To recap: He pressured a dictator into giving up his WMDs (again, only under the threat of attack) and is sitting back watching this dictator and his support group battle it out with various radical Islamist groups the US doesn't like anyway.
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:20 PM   #50
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good. He deserves one tbf


He's a homophobic bigot.
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:28 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by ali.guitarkid7
The Assad regime lost all their chemical weapons,


You actually believe that?
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:31 PM   #52
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internet arguments

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Old 03-06-2014, 10:31 PM   #53
ali.guitarkid7
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Originally Posted by Arby911
You actually believe that?

I have no evidence to the contrary. Even if they didn't hide some or something, they could still manufacture once they hand everything over and there are no more monitors. But still, they cannot be happy about this, and it's a costly loss (it might not be had the economy not been so ****ed).


My point is that they're still losing assets. Which is good, at least imo.
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:52 PM   #54
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Really happy for him, he's done a lot to deserve this. I've been hoping for this for a long time now, and feel blessed to actually be able to see it happen.
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Old 03-06-2014, 11:01 PM   #55
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Old 03-06-2014, 11:20 PM   #56
Arby911
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Originally Posted by ali.guitarkid7
I have no evidence to the contrary. Even if they didn't hide some or something, they could still manufacture once they hand everything over and there are no more monitors. But still, they cannot be happy about this, and it's a costly loss (it might not be had the economy not been so ****ed).


My point is that they're still losing assets. Which is good, at least imo.


?

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...apons-1-3331759
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Old 03-06-2014, 11:27 PM   #57
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They're stalling, but I haven't seen evidence to show that they reported less than they have or that they've hidden any materials, nor have I seen claims of this. Granted I've not been following it too closely lately.
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Old 03-06-2014, 11:42 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by ali.guitarkid7
They're stalling, but I haven't seen evidence to show that they reported less than they have or that they've hidden any materials, nor have I seen claims of this. Granted I've not been following it too closely lately.



I think it's just a miscommunication, when you said "lost all" I thought you meant they were already gone.
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Old 03-06-2014, 11:54 PM   #59
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He's a homophobic bigot.

Putin the man probably does not give a crap if somebody is gay or not. But he has to pander to the church. Russia 2014 is as feudal as Russia 1414.
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Old 03-06-2014, 11:57 PM   #60
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If Obama has one, why not Putin? That would be racist.
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