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Old 03-21-2014, 09:12 AM   #1
Badmotorfingers
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Muff, Chorus & Delay

Had to make another thread sorry, lol....

Anyway, right now I have a TC G-Major but I want to move to a pedal setup as I only use a few fx in the G-Major and it's 'stuck' in the fx loop. i.e. no modulation in front of the amp.

Decided on something like this for a pedalboard

Polytune
535q (already have)
SD1
TS9 (maybe)
Muff
MXR 10 Band/EQ (maybe)
Phase 90
Chorus
Delay

For the muff I was looking at a blackout effectors musket but that seems a little pricey for something I might not end up using that much. Is there anything that will do a Gilmour-ish muff for cheaper?

Chorus I'm not sure... maybe a Boss one. I like chorus on cleans most of the time but don't want one that sounds cliche '80s'; maybe a little bit of a darker sounding chorus.

For Delay I was looking at a Nova delay but I think that might be overkill. Just some 'generic' somewhat short delay on leads i.e. comfortably numb and maybe some ambient repeating delay sounds. Like if I play a little 2 or 4 note phrase it will be like a call and repeat thing if that makes any sense. But still would like it to sound nice though, especially on leads.
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Old 03-21-2014, 09:23 AM   #2
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The Blackout sounds fantastic.

I have an Earthquaker Hoof. I love it dearly. Every time I turn it on it makes me smile because it is exactly the sound that I want to hear.

The Catalinbread Manx Loaghtan is also worth checking out, it was my second choice from the Hoof.

For general purposes analog chorus, I really like the Boss CH-1. I personally use a BBE Mind Bender, but I use it for an extremely high rate intense "underwater" effect. Not a general purpose sound at all. The Hardwire CR-7 is probably the best value general purpose chorus. Sounds amazing. Not impressed with the Boss CE pedals or the TC Corona. They both sound too cheesy/generic to me.

Lots of great delay pedals. Check out the Hardwire DL-8 and the TC Flashback. My personal favorite is the Line 6 DL4, which I get through my Line 6 M9. Their form factors can be a pain, but you can get the Line 6 delay sound in the M5, which has a quite reasonable footprint, and the price is really amazing for what it is. If you want something analog, the EHX Deluxe Memory Boy pretty much reigns supreme for price/features (I'm assuming you're a sane person and you want tap on your delay, right?).
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Old 03-21-2014, 09:39 AM   #3
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First thing is the obvious mention, the EHX Tone Tattoo. Analogue delay, chorus and muff in one unit, with optional noise gate, too. Obviously it means you're more limited in terms of pedal order, but it's hard to argue with it if those are the three things you're specifically after.

Otherwise, for the muff I think a plain Big Muff is going to be your best bet. No, it's not special, but that's the point. David Gilmour gets his sound because he knows how to get the most out of simple gear; very little of his rig is particularly obscure, boutique pieces. Most muffs are variants of this pedal anyway, usually just adding more clipping. With an SD-1 running in front of it there's hardly any need for anything more extravagant.

For the chorus, I highly recommend the Boss CH-1. It has a slightly odd reputation because A) the Boss CE lines costs a little more and B) how dare you use a chorus which isn't an EHX. But the CH-1 will do what you're after. The tone control lets you place it as bright or as dark as you want and the depth ramps up in a linear fashion, never going to the extremes of cheesy 80s chorus. Just be aware that the rate and depth knobs interact in a weird fashion so dialing in the sound you want isn't something you can presume before you've turned the pedal on. There are hardly any standard production chorus pedals I haven't used and the CH-1 is the only one I've stuck with and one of only two pedals I've liked enough to buy multiple times. It's the only chorus I've found which doesn't try to just copy either Nirvana or The Cure.

For the delay, I think you need to decide how much you're able to spend on a 'generic' effect. If you've got the cash to splash, look at the Red Witch Titan. You can layer delay upon delay upon delay and the tone of each delay can be anything you want from bright to dark and totally clean to heavily modulated. If you'd like to spend a little less but still want a flexible unit which can do the whole Gilmour layers-on-layers thing, try the Boss DD-20 and DigiTech TimeBender. They're basically two DD-7s/DigiDelays working together and there aren't many people who would ever need anything more. There's also the Line 6 DL4 which has been the go-to delay modeller for virtually every touring professional for years.
Of course if you decide that actually you don't need the complex delays and would rather save a bit of money and get a basic unit just to do a simple repeat, look at the TC Flashback and Boss DD-7. They're simple but they're (somewhat) cheaper, and they're both built really solidly.
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Old 03-21-2014, 10:03 AM   #4
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@Offworld92
What do you think is better out of the Hoof and Musket? But also are there any less boutique muffs that will give that kind of sound?

CH-1 sounds nice, definitely more towards the kind of sound I'm after. Same with CR-7. I think they have less of a flange to them maybe compared to the other ones.

To be honest I don't really need a tap, I've always found it ok just for leads without it. And for the DL4 I prefer something more simple without so many options so I can just dial in on the right sound.

@MrFlibble
Wow I had no idea that existed, but it has a metal muff, not really sure that's the sound I'm after. And aren't regular big muffs kind of crappy? Unless you mean a real vintage one but I'm not sure how common/expensive they are. I wouldn't have any problem with that, just not sure if they're around much.

Another +1 for the CH-1 I see and it's cheaper than the CR-7 too.

As for the delay I don't need all that fancy extra delays stuff, it would be used on leads 90% of the time. Also what about a DD3? I do quite like the delays in my G-Major though.
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Old 03-21-2014, 10:23 AM   #5
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The DD-3 is just the DD-6/7 without a couple of extra modes. If you can pick one up in good condition and at a cheap price then go for it, but there is nothing special about them. They've become mythical because of the recordings they've been used on, but in terms of their innards there is nothing they do differently to the updated models, and a few things they do worse. If you think a DD-3 would do you fine and can't find one at a good price in good condition, just grab the 6 or 7.

The Metal Muff is indeed a different kind of tone, but by simply taking the gain down, turning the scoop off and rolling the treble control back a little bit, you end up with the same thing.
The Big Muff you can buy nowadays is different from some of the 'original' models, but then, even the original models changed from year-to-year. Not to mention how many were modded in all sorts of crazy ways. The current Big Muff/Big Muff Pi are a sort of middleground between all the many variants which were made through the 70s. Some people will be disappointed by them because they aren't bright enough, while others will complain they're not warm enough. Some people say they're cheap and have too much distortion, others say they're too clean. You said "I might not end up using that much" and "a Gilmour-ish muff", which to me suggests a standard, basic model would be the best way to go.

Have a think about whether you want a particularly brighter/darker/warmer/harsher/distorted/cleaner style of muff sound, then think about more expensive units. It's very hard to suggest a fancy boutique unit if all you want is somethign standard, though.
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Old 03-21-2014, 10:34 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badmotorfingers
@Offworld92
What do you think is better out of the Hoof and Musket? But also are there any less boutique muffs that will give that kind of sound?


Well for me, the Hoof. But at that point, it's really just all preference. I wouldn't say anything like the Hoof is objectively better. I just vibe with it the right way, that's all. As I said before, the Musket sounds fantastic. I wouldn't be mad if someone swapped out my Hoof for a Musket.

As for non-boutique, idk. Check out then new Little Big Muff Pi. I've also read very good things about the Bass Big Muff working great with guitar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badmotorfingers
To be honest I don't really need a tap, I've always found it ok just for leads without it. And for the DL4 I prefer something more simple without so many options so I can just dial in on the right sound.


If you're positive you don't need tap, then look at the MXR Carbon Copy. It's in my opinion the best sounding simple, cheapish delay out there.

Also check out the Malekko 616. I don't see what the big deal is about it, but it's very highly regarded, so worth checking out at least.

Way Huge Aqua Puss is alright.
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Old 03-21-2014, 10:48 AM   #7
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@MrFlibble Yeah I've seen a DD-3 in good condition for fairly cheap. As I said I don't really need a special delay just something that sounds good on leads.

I sent you a pm regarding the muff, just a link you can check regarding it. Probably easier if you reply in here though.

Also about the tone tattoo, how does the delay and chorus in that compare to say dd3/dd7 etc and a CH1?

@Offworld92
Will look at little big muff pi and also carbon copy
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Old 03-21-2014, 12:27 PM   #8
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You're lucky 'cause I used to have "will never respond to PMs" as my signature on here.

That definitely sounds like a more overblown, metal or boosted muff to me. A standard muff with the SD-1 cranked before it and the tone controls kept in the middle or rolled back a little, or the metal muff on its own with the bass pushed up and the mid scoop switched off would get there. If anything, it sounds more like a fuzz face. I would be amazed if a normal Big Muff Pi didn't do the job for you, especially with the SD-1 and/or TS9 to back it up.

As for the Tone Tatto, I'll confess I've only used it once, so bear with me. As I remember it, the chorus was more or less the same as a Neo Clone I used to have, which is a more muffled chorus, good for the sort of 'underwater' Nirvana tone. I stopped using the Neo Clone and switched to the CH-1 because I like to have as many options available to me and I felt the CH-1, with the expanded controls, was just a better all-rounder. If you're sure you want your chorus to be on the darker side then the Neo Clone would do fine and so the Tone Tatoo would nail that.

The delay part is exactly the same as the Memory Boy, but since the Tone Tattoo has the chorus built into it as a separate effect, they've replaced the Memory Boy's modulation controls with a gain control, which just adds a little compression. As I recall it was like a standard—nice, but basic—analogue delay. Helluva lot of repeats available, I remember having to set the feedback knob much lower than I've had to do on any other delay pedal. It doesn't have a way of doing a totally clean, dry delay like the digital delay pedals, but if you were going to use the delay with chorus or on a modulated mode anyway then the analogue delay there would do the same thing brilliantly.

The main drawback of the Tone Tattoo is simply that it's all in one unit, so you can't run the chorus and delay in the effects loop of your amp, for example, or put other effects between them. The main advantage of the Tone Tattoo is it's a little cheaper than buying three separate pedals and each effect was designed to mix with the other two well; you can buy the one thing and be sorted. It's flexibility vs cost and convenience.

I do think it is overall better to use separate pedals, if you can afford to do so and you want a specific sound you'll want to tweak, but if a bassy muff, a dark chorus and a simple delay are all you're after... well, they're all there.
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Old 03-21-2014, 02:00 PM   #9
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Muff, Chorus and Delay. Like David Gilmour on Comfortably Numb aka the best solo tone ever.
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Old 03-21-2014, 03:05 PM   #10
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Old 03-21-2014, 03:20 PM   #11
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For delay I'd go with either a Boss DD-3, Boss DD-5 or a TC Electronics Flashback delay
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Old 03-21-2014, 03:29 PM   #12
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Old 03-21-2014, 04:54 PM   #13
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http://www.kitrae.net/music/Music_M...2.htm l#Musket

All this guy seems to care about is if it sounds like Smashing Pumpkins or Pink Floyd, so his demos may be enlightening.
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Old 03-21-2014, 09:45 PM   #14
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@Mrflibble
So a Little Big Muff Pi should be ok then? Are the Big Muff Pi, Little Big Muff Pi and Big Muff Pi Nano all the same thing?

Also I don't think I will get a tone tattoo because it's going to give me some of the same 'problems' I have with my G-Major.

@KerNeL_KLuTcH
Definitely one of the best ever for sure!

@dannyalcatraz
The Jekyll&Hyde, what is the distortion section? I'm looking at a SD-1, Bad Monkey/TS and Big Muff Pi. I wouldn't really use any for actual distortion though. SD-1 & Monkey/TS for boost and Muff just for Muff/Fuzz. H20 is a bit expensive I think and CH-1 should be good enough. Same with Red Witch. I actually looked at the Echorec (and an El Capistan) but I don't think it's what I'm looking for. More of just a digital delay sound I think.

@Xbouncer927
Looking at the DD-3

@pinheadslts75
Sounds pretty good I must admit, still considering it.
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Old 03-21-2014, 10:27 PM   #15
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The J&H distortion is based on the Tube Screamer.

A Line6 Echo Park might be a good delay option for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sHoyhyfjgs&sns=em

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHSATrDyOdQ&sns=em

Also, if you're aiming for Gilmour, one of his secrets is subtlety. He uses many things to shape his main tones, but usually none in excess. One thing he uses is a rotary speaker cabinet at low settings to add a little "wobble" to his sound. And the best way to get that kind of "seasoning" to your tone will be via a rotary pedal of some kind. There are many out there, but I like & own the Boss RT-20. They're not exactly cheap, but like all Boss pedals, they're built like tanks, and they're common enough that you should be able to find one on the used market pretty easily.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QrXsrPAFIc&sns=em
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Old 03-21-2014, 10:33 PM   #16
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So it's basically a 2 channel tubescreamer? Don't think I need that. Leaning more towards a Bad Monkey over a TS9 anyway.
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Old 03-22-2014, 12:17 AM   #17
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Are there techs in your neighborhood? If so, a lot of techs love building pedals. In a lot of cases, thats the most efficient way to go for $, quality and personal tone preference. I recently paid $25 for a (used, not made by me) big muff clone that destroys my regular ehx muffs. Best fuzz I've ever tried, let alone owned. Just walk in to your local guitar shop and tell 'em exactly what you want, most will be happy to build it for you.

I suggest a TC Flasback x4 too. Its a lil pricier but not by much considering you get several distinct delay types and a looper in one box. You can also dial in a decent chorus type effect with it. I actually use mine as a sorta chorus+reverb tone thickener/shaper (and looper) more than a traditional delay effect.
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Old 03-22-2014, 12:41 AM   #18
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I have no idea, but I wouldn't imagine they'd be cheap.

I definitely like the TC stuff if I wanted a more extravagant delay. I do like that the Flashbackx4 has 3 'instant' presets.
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Old 03-23-2014, 11:43 AM   #19
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On the muff question above, I believe the 'Nano' version is significantly different inside and clips the signal more harshly. Haven't used one myself to tell. The 'Little' version has a different power supply (uses the standard Boss/DigiTech/Ibanez style power adapter) and has a slightly warmer tone, to my ears it's like it's just got the tone knob rolled back a little more than the standard version.
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Old 03-23-2014, 12:07 PM   #20
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I like the sound of TC Electronics stuff, but I am leery of buying their product right now. I've noticed a bit more complaining about their repair/customer service record these days.

Search "tc electronics customer service fail problem issue" and you'll see what I mean.
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