Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Instruments > Guitar Techniques
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 07-06-2014, 12:17 AM   #1
Clay-man
Say no to saying no
 
Clay-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Improve wrist alternate picking technique & speed?

I'd like to stop using my elbow so much but I feel like there's a giant wall for me when it comes to write picking and speed. I don't understand why it's so limited for me.

Can anyone help me out? If I try to push harder it just makes my wrist hurt. Should I just build up speed with a metronome?
__________________
Guitars:
Davison SG
Line 6 Variax 600
Clay-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 03:05 AM   #2
Archer250
Registered User
 
Archer250's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Stick with it. As with everything, it will hurt a bit. Start by working slowly until you're up to speed.
__________________
Gear:
Ibanez GRG250p w/DiMarzio Tone Zone and 36th Anniversary PAF
Ibanez IBZ10G
Maxon SM9 Pro+
Voodoo Lab Pedal Power ISO5
Dunlop Tortex Picks .88 and 1.00mm
Planet Waves Lock Strap
Archer250 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 03:55 AM   #3
Clay-man
Say no to saying no
 
Clay-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer250
Stick with it. As with everything, it will hurt a bit. Start by working slowly until you're up to speed.


I've noticed when I pick I take big swings, I think this is part of the problem. It wastes time and energy. What can I do to stop that?
__________________
Guitars:
Davison SG
Line 6 Variax 600
Clay-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 04:04 AM   #4
Archer250
Registered User
 
Archer250's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Make small, focused movements instead.
__________________
Gear:
Ibanez GRG250p w/DiMarzio Tone Zone and 36th Anniversary PAF
Ibanez IBZ10G
Maxon SM9 Pro+
Voodoo Lab Pedal Power ISO5
Dunlop Tortex Picks .88 and 1.00mm
Planet Waves Lock Strap
Archer250 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 04:14 AM   #5
yamahaducky8910
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
relaaaaaaxxxx your arm. Tensing up will surely make you pick even slower and will lock up your wrist, probably the reason why it is sore after you practice?
yamahaducky8910 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 05:18 AM   #6
Archer250
Registered User
 
Archer250's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Don't relax too much that you're not picking with force. Speed is one thing, but listen to Gilbert, McLaughlin, Al Di Meola, Sykes, Becker and Friedman. What do they all have in common? They don't pick like a wimp.
__________________
Gear:
Ibanez GRG250p w/DiMarzio Tone Zone and 36th Anniversary PAF
Ibanez IBZ10G
Maxon SM9 Pro+
Voodoo Lab Pedal Power ISO5
Dunlop Tortex Picks .88 and 1.00mm
Planet Waves Lock Strap

Last edited by Archer250 : 07-06-2014 at 05:19 AM.
Archer250 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 10:38 AM   #7
Zaphod_Beeblebr
Shallow and pedantic.
 
Zaphod_Beeblebr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Behind a desk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer250
As with everything, it will hurt a bit.


No. I can't stress enough how much no. It shouldn't hurt, if it hurts you're doing something wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay-man
I'd like to stop using my elbow so much but I feel like there's a giant wall for me when it comes to write picking and speed. I don't understand why it's so limited for me.

Can anyone help me out? If I try to push harder it just makes my wrist hurt. Should I just build up speed with a metronome?


Stop pushing. That's entirely counter-productive. You need to figure out why you can't get any faster. I would bet that either there's some tension somewhere in your body or that you're moving too much. Quite possibly both. Be very mindful of exactly what your body is doing when you play; not just your arm and wrist but your whole body. Playing guitar is very much a holistic thing so tension anywhere in your body can effect your playing for the worse. I would definitely say that the pain is a sign of extreme tension in your playing when you're pushing the speed which means that when you're playing slower it's already creeping in. Pay very close attention to your body while you're playing, it will tell you what you need to fix in this regard.

Also try recording your playing and examining what you're doing; you can't really look very carefully when you're playing because you have the wrong perspective and you're concentrating on actually doing it anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer250
Don't relax too much that you're not picking with force. Speed is one thing, but listen to Gilbert, McLaughlin, Al Di Meola, Sykes, Becker and Friedman. What do they all have in common? They don't pick like a wimp.


You really don't need to tense up to do that though. Watch Rick Graham and Paul Gilbert; they're both as relaxed as anything but there's nothing wimpy about their picking. It's all about finding a balance with how much pick you use, angling it the right way, the right amount of movement needed, and any number of other things... but you definitely don't need to tense up in order to pick harder.
__________________
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Last edited by Zaphod_Beeblebr : 07-06-2014 at 10:40 AM.
Zaphod_Beeblebr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 12:12 PM   #8
anders.jorgense
Registered User
 
anders.jorgense's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Metronome is one of the right things but you will need the right ex to spend the time on.

Speed Mechanics by Troy Stetina sounds what you need.

Focus on that one and you will accomplish your goals with this thread.
anders.jorgense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 02:41 PM   #9
Zaphod_Beeblebr
Shallow and pedantic.
 
Zaphod_Beeblebr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Behind a desk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anders.jorgense
Metronome is one of the right things but you will need the right ex to spend the time on.

Speed Mechanics by Troy Stetina sounds what you need.

Focus on that one and you will accomplish your goals with this thread.


Exercises alone do nothing, you need to practice them the right way as well and simply "with a metronome" is nowhere near enough.
__________________
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.
Zaphod_Beeblebr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 04:54 PM   #10
Clay-man
Say no to saying no
 
Clay-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
I should be moving my forearm to change what string I'm picking, right?
__________________
Guitars:
Davison SG
Line 6 Variax 600
Clay-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 05:01 PM   #11
anders.jorgense
Registered User
 
anders.jorgense's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Exercises alone do nothing, you need to practice them the right way as well and simply "with a metronome" is nowhere near enough.


Notice the word right exercises to accomplish the goal!

If you don't what it takes you might not go through them all.
anders.jorgense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 05:28 PM   #12
Anon17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
You can play the right exercises for hundreds of hours with bad technique and get nowhere.
Anon17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 05:30 PM   #13
Zaphod_Beeblebr
Shallow and pedantic.
 
Zaphod_Beeblebr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Behind a desk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anders.jorgense
Notice the word right exercises to accomplish the goal!

If you don't what it takes you might not go through them all.


This:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon17
You can play the right exercises for hundreds of hours with bad technique and get nowhere.


You're missing the point: you can't just run a whole series of exercises and expect to magically get better and a metronome isn't enough either. You need to practice the things that really contribute to fast playing: relaxation and economy of motion. And no exercise, no exercise inherently contains those things.
__________________
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Last edited by Zaphod_Beeblebr : 07-06-2014 at 05:32 PM.
Zaphod_Beeblebr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 06:12 PM   #14
anders.jorgense
Registered User
 
anders.jorgense's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod_Beeblebr
This:



You're missing the point: you can't just run a whole series of exercises and expect to magically get better and a metronome isn't enough either. You need to practice the things that really contribute to fast playing: relaxation and economy of motion. And no exercise, no exercise inherently contains those things.


Maybe but that is why Speed Mechanics is the bible that has the focus of the topic of this thread!

It does theach all the right areas to focus on.

If you dont know whats in it how can you tell anyway?

I am going through it on a serious level and it does work if you care to go through it!

Last edited by anders.jorgense : 07-06-2014 at 06:14 PM.
anders.jorgense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 06:50 PM   #15
Zaphod_Beeblebr
Shallow and pedantic.
 
Zaphod_Beeblebr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Behind a desk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anders.jorgense
Maybe but that is why Speed Mechanics is the bible that has the focus of the topic of this thread!

It does theach all the right areas to focus on.

If you dont know whats in it how can you tell anyway?

I am going through it on a serious level and it does work if you care to go through it!


You know what... I hadn't read any of it until just now... but that doesn't actually invalidate anything I said. You were concentrating on the exercise when that is really not the important part of what you're doing. You could practice almost anything and as long as you do it the right way you'll get faster because your technique improves. The main thing that exercises do is ingrain those patterns in to your muscle memory.

I never said that Speed Mechanics was bad, just that only running exercises without any regard to how you're doing it is. Turns out that speed mechanics is a good book and does have instructions on how to practice correctly... and that's the important part.
__________________
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.
Zaphod_Beeblebr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 07:10 PM   #16
Anon17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
It's worth nothing that Troy doesn't mention that much about relaxation and economy of motion (from what I read of the book, not a bad book by any means though), so it'd be quite easy to go through the book as a technique beginner and miss out the fundamental points.

That being said if you actually read the book and practice properly with it you will most likely improve.
Anon17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 07:40 PM   #17
Archer250
Registered User
 
Archer250's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod_Beeblebr
No. I can't stress enough how much no. It shouldn't hurt, if it hurts you're doing something wrong.


You really don't need to tense up to do that though. Watch Rick Graham and Paul Gilbert; they're both as relaxed as anything but there's nothing wimpy about their picking. It's all about finding a balance with how much pick you use, angling it the right way, the right amount of movement needed, and any number of other things... but you definitely don't need to tense up in order to pick harder.



Let's put it this way. Paul relaxes his hand and his arm. His thumb is definitely not lax.
__________________
Gear:
Ibanez GRG250p w/DiMarzio Tone Zone and 36th Anniversary PAF
Ibanez IBZ10G
Maxon SM9 Pro+
Voodoo Lab Pedal Power ISO5
Dunlop Tortex Picks .88 and 1.00mm
Planet Waves Lock Strap
Archer250 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 08:26 PM   #18
Zaphod_Beeblebr
Shallow and pedantic.
 
Zaphod_Beeblebr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Behind a desk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer250
Let's put it this way. Paul relaxes his hand and his arm. His thumb is definitely not lax.


Well frankly... you're wrong. It is. Watch something like Intense Rock II or indeed anything where he does a lot of fast picking; his whole hand is very relaxed.

Even without that theres:

__________________
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.
Zaphod_Beeblebr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 09:11 PM   #19
Archer250
Registered User
 
Archer250's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Well frankly... you're wrong. It is. Watch something like Intense Rock II or indeed anything where he does a lot of fast picking; his whole hand is very relaxed.

Even without that theres:


I dunno. He looked as if he held the pick tightly as hell on the first Intense Rock
__________________
Gear:
Ibanez GRG250p w/DiMarzio Tone Zone and 36th Anniversary PAF
Ibanez IBZ10G
Maxon SM9 Pro+
Voodoo Lab Pedal Power ISO5
Dunlop Tortex Picks .88 and 1.00mm
Planet Waves Lock Strap
Archer250 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 10:47 PM   #20
Zaphod_Beeblebr
Shallow and pedantic.
 
Zaphod_Beeblebr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Behind a desk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer250
I dunno. He looked as if he held the pick tightly as hell on the first Intense Rock


Essentially: no, he didn't. Go look again. You just need to watch the intro to see it as long as you're looking closely. No tension in that picking hand at all, through any of the insane playing.
__________________
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.
Zaphod_Beeblebr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:38 PM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.