Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Music > Musician Talk > Singing & Vocals
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 07-14-2014, 03:17 PM   #1
KeyGuy
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Singing high notes (metal).

Hi,

I am complete newbie to singing and would like to develop at least a bit to be able to do some backing vocals.

Obviously since I just started doing this I have problems with everything. In particular though, high notes give me an exceptional trouble. It doesn't get any better with all the mixed terms that everyone seems to be using such as falsetto, head voice, mixed voice, and all the crazy Italian terms designed to confuse.

But put simply, I can't reach the high notes that metal singers use with full sounding voice. And if I flip into falsetto (around e4) it starts to sound very thin and a bit girly. I am wondering if the singers simply have naturally higher pitched voice and are singing in their full chest voice.

So can anyone tell if for example Tony Kakko is singing in falsetto/head voice or chest voice in this song's verse starting at 1:15 and A4:




If it indeed is a head voice, do you know of any exercises that I could do to develop it. For the moment I am not even sure about the difference between falsetto and the head voice - but apparently singing "now" forces the voice into head voice...


Other thing I have problems with is the straining. After singing just 30 minutes my voice starts to sound like a distortion box or ring modulator was left on. Any tips how to avoid this?


Thanks a lot for the answers. And yeah, I know the correct answer probably is "get a coach", and that very well may be what I will do in the future.

Last edited by KeyGuy : 07-14-2014 at 03:21 PM.
KeyGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2014, 05:16 PM   #2
Cavalcade
Days, I feel it...
 
Cavalcade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Tony Kakko is a tenor, as far as I can tell. His vocal chords are probably shaped differently than yours, and you might never actually be able to sing that high, no matter how good your technique is (unless you're also a tenor).

One thing that will help lessen strain is making it a habit to open your soft palate, a muscle at the back of your mouth that controls the nasal passage. To lift it up off your throat, try closing up your nose from inside your mouth, which is something that happens when you yawn or laugh.
__________________
If you're reading this, it means UG still has this, but not a :sam: smiley.
Cavalcade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2014, 06:27 PM   #3
Milan999
Registered User
 
Milan999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
A4 is ****ing tough to hit for the general public my man. I've been singing for two years now, including having a vocal coach for an 8 month stretch and I can only hit it on certain vowel sounds and with a ton of strain. The reason being is that I'm a low baritone, or a bass baritone. My vocal range tops off at about F#4 in terms of notes I can consistently hit 100% of the time. You're likely the same. In regards to your song, yes, he's in chest voice but he's belting.


To help end your confusion about head voice and the like.

Head voice is the very feminine register in your voice. Examples of guys that frequently use it would be Justin Timberlake.

This song contains all three voices:



Head: The intro "Woo's". Also 1:13 ("Jumped from [MY] trees") - The end of "From" and the entirety of "My" are head voice.

Mixed: 1:03 - end of chorus minus the exception above.
- It's a bit tough to tell mixed voice but it's generally the lightening up of your chest voice towards the beginning of your passagio (transition zone in between chest and head).

Chest: 0:38 - entire first verse pretty much.


Just remember the head voice is that high pitched area of your voice.

Last edited by Milan999 : 07-28-2014 at 06:30 PM.
Milan999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2014, 02:45 PM   #4
KeyGuy
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan999
A4 is ****ing tough to hit for the general public my man. I've been singing for two years now, including having a vocal coach for an 8 month stretch and I can only hit it on certain vowel sounds and with a ton of strain. The reason being is that I'm a low baritone, or a bass baritone. My vocal range tops off at about F#4 in terms of notes I can consistently hit 100% of the time. You're likely the same. In regards to your song, yes, he's in chest voice but he's belting.


I am so confused right now. Every 2nd person seems to be thinking these guys are singing in head voice. And yes this song probably won't ever be in my range although I think I am a baritone but lower one than Kakko. Then again this isn't one of his highest note hitters. Still sounds like an e5 at the end of that said verse, unless I am mistaking the octave. I don't think that would be possible for baritone in chest (or maybe for anyone with that ease?).


Quote:
To help end your confusion about head voice and the like.

Head voice is the very feminine register in your voice. Examples of guys that frequently use it would be Justin Timberlake.

This song contains all three voices:



Head: The intro "Woo's". Also 1:13 ("Jumped from [MY] trees") - The end of "From" and the entirety of "My" are head voice.

Mixed: 1:03 - end of chorus minus the exception above.
- It's a bit tough to tell mixed voice but it's generally the lightening up of your chest voice towards the beginning of your passagio (transition zone in between chest and head).

Chest: 0:38 - entire first verse pretty much.


Just remember the head voice is that high pitched area of your voice.


And the confusion continues. Some people refer to head voice as falsetto. To me all those sounded falsettoish, but the style is a lot more faint. I have practiced a bit and I think a lot of people call the way edgier "Chest-like (or chest-lite)" sound in the upper register head voice, getting a hang of it, but I still distort a lot more than I would like.

Thanks for the answers guys.
KeyGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2014, 04:42 PM   #5
Milan999
Registered User
 
Milan999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
E5 is absolutely possible for a baritone to hit with a certain technique. Axl Rose is a bass-baritone (same voice type as Johnny Cash) and he regularly hits the fifth octave. M. Shadows from Avenged Sevenfold is a standard baritone and hits the fifth octave regularly (eg. The final chorus of "Warmness on the Soul" he hits a consistent D5 for a long stretch IIRC).

There's no way the song you posted is in head voice at the timestamp you declared. As for the differences between head and falsetto, I have absolutely no idea. That's all waters being muddied based on minute technical differences. Even mixed voice is considered to not be a register by a lot of vocal scholars; a lot contend that the registers are: fry, chest, head, whistle and that these "sub terms" are just minor technical variations on each.
Milan999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2014, 07:59 PM   #6
KeyGuy
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan999
E5 is absolutely possible for a baritone to hit with a certain technique. Axl Rose is a bass-baritone (same voice type as Johnny Cash) and he regularly hits the fifth octave. M. Shadows from Avenged Sevenfold is a standard baritone and hits the fifth octave regularly (eg. The final chorus of "Warmness on the Soul" he hits a consistent D5 for a long stretch IIRC).


Where can I read more about this technique to extend chest range? I think the support is the key, but quite difficult to learn to do it properly. By the way, if you think E5s are absolutely possible for bass baritones, why are you having trouble with A4s? Damn, sucks to be so low voiced.

Quote:
There's no way the song you posted is in head voice at the timestamp you declared. As for the differences between head and falsetto, I have absolutely no idea. That's all waters being muddied based on minute technical differences. Even mixed voice is considered to not be a register by a lot of vocal scholars; a lot contend that the registers are: fry, chest, head, whistle and that these "sub terms" are just minor technical variations on each.


Yeah it's a confusing mess I think. These terms should probably be defined each time they are used to explain what is talked about. But this is good to know because it means I need to develop my chest and not head voice...
KeyGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 02:04 PM   #7
Milan999
Registered User
 
Milan999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
I can actually hit up into the fifth octave while warming up with vowel sounds but forget about it in a song. These guys just have great coordination. Look up "axl rose technique" on Google; I'm sure there's articles. It's also very common to top off at A4, G4, F#4 as a baritone. John Mayer for example doesn't go past an A4 without switching into head voice IIRC. Johnny Cash has probably two songs that go past a G4. Even boy bands like 1D, who are generally regarded as solid singers have guys that can't go much further than G4.

On the other hand guys like Chris Cornell, Rose, and Shadows, as well as a slew of other baritones can hit notes that typically tenors hit. But yeah, just see if you can google these guys' technique. I've never felt the necessity so I'm not sure how they coordinate the lower high notes (F4-A4) and the higher high notes (C5+).
Milan999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 02:11 PM   #8
Sickz
Jazz Musician
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
You have to find your mix in order to sing high with a powerful voice. The mix is developed through bridging the gap between chest and head voice.



This exercise works well for that, if you are patient. It is something you have to do for a while in order to get it flowing.
__________________
Fusion and jazz musician, a fan of most music.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guthrie Govan
“If you steal from one person it's theft, and if you steal from lots of people it's research”


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chick Corea
"Only play what you hear. If you don't hear anything, don't play anything."
Sickz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 05:46 PM   #9
KeyGuy
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sickz
You have to find your mix in order to sing high with a powerful voice. The mix is developed through bridging the gap between chest and head voice.



This exercise works well for that, if you are patient. It is something you have to do for a while in order to get it flowing.


Thanks for the exercise. Are you saying then that the high notes are sung using head voice / the higher register or not?
KeyGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:32 AM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.