Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Instruments > Acoustic & Classical Guitar
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 08-27-2014, 09:34 AM   #1
Crob95
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Kind of guitar other than spruce?

I just found out that I am allergic to spruce, apparently it's like the more I am around spruce the worse it gets or something. Do you guys have any ideas on guitars under $1000 that are not spruce? I need something that would sound good in the studio too.

Thank you!!
Crob95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 10:23 AM   #2
Bikewer
Registered User
 
Bikewer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Popular non-spruce top woods include cedar, mahogany, and koa. Mahogany is pretty popular right now, with both taylor and martin offering mahogany-topped models.
In general, they are reported to be a bit "mellower" than spruce.

Likewise with cedar. Cedar is another coniferous wood though, and you might have similar problems... Koa is another animal altogether... I think the sound properties are similar to mahogany.
It's hard to imagine that the spruce top of a typical guitar would cause problems... It is, after all, completely covered by whatever finish is applied; be that nitro laquer or poly.
Bikewer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 10:33 AM   #3
Crob95
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Yea it's pretty weird every time I start playing I start getting stuffy nose, sore throat, headache, and stuff, and yea I checked into finishes because I thought it might be a little weird to be allergic to spruce. Thanks I'll check out some mahogany and koa.
Crob95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 03:14 PM   #4
MikeBmusic
Never enuf guitars
 
MikeBmusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: New England
Note that many acoustic guitars with non-spruce tops may still have spruce bracing inside.
__________________
My reverbnation page


2012 Taylor 310ce
2011 Fender CD140SCE
Ibanez 12 string a/e
73 Epi 6830E
72 Fender Telecaster
Epi Dot Studio
Epi LP Jr
Chinese Strat clone
Washburn Mandolin
Luna 'tatoo' a/e uke
antique banjolin
Squire J bass
MikeBmusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 05:19 PM   #5
Tony Done
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeBmusic
Note that many acoustic guitars with non-spruce tops may still have spruce bracing inside.


That made me think that spraying the inside with lacquer might fix it, even on a spruce top. I'm sure it wouldn't affect tone. and it might improve stability.
__________________
Tony Done
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=784456
http://www.flickr.com/photos/done_family/
Tony Done is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2014, 09:07 AM   #6
Bikewer
Registered User
 
Bikewer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Another possibility... Carbon fiber. The carbon guitars are actually pretty well thought-of by folks who are not tradition-bound... The Acoustic Guitar Forum has a whole section for such instruments.
Bikewer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2014, 09:58 AM   #7
stepchildusmc
Registered User
 
stepchildusmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
carbon fiber would be the logical choice. no spruce bracing which is where I would assume you get most of your allergy issues.
only problem with that is that you're gonna have to increase your budget a bit. Rainsong, Emerald, CA, even Adamas( of which I have 2) make great CF guitars. I haven't seen many in your budget. take a look at Ted's LA guitars website, there are plenty of offerings to look thru there. great videos and they will even play them over the phone for you if you wish. Ted's an excellent dealer to go thru and has a vast inventory of guitars to choose from.
__________________
need more gear and a lot more talent(courtesytuxs)
stepchildusmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2014, 04:51 PM   #8
msarro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by stepchildusmc
carbon fiber would be the logical choice. no spruce bracing which is where I would assume you get most of your allergy issues.
only problem with that is that you're gonna have to increase your budget a bit. Rainsong, Emerald, CA, even Adamas( of which I have 2) make great CF guitars. I haven't seen many in your budget. take a look at Ted's LA guitars website, there are plenty of offerings to look thru there. great videos and they will even play them over the phone for you if you wish. Ted's an excellent dealer to go thru and has a vast inventory of guitars to choose from.


I had never heard of carbon fiber guitars until your post, I youtubed some videos to see what the sound was like. I was actually pretty surprised at how good they sound. Sadly they seem to lack the warmth and voice that I think a lot of solid wood guitars have though, that's not to say they sound bad, just a little more hollow.
msarro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2014, 05:41 PM   #9
Tony Done
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by msarro
I had never heard of carbon fiber guitars until your post, I youtubed some videos to see what the sound was like. I was actually pretty surprised at how good they sound. Sadly they seem to lack the warmth and voice that I think a lot of solid wood guitars have though, that's not to say they sound bad, just a little more hollow.


I've got no confidence in recordings as a source of detailed info on tone. - I recently listened to a comparative recordin(same mic etc) of a Baby Taylor and two expensive Martins, one of which was in the super-expensive prewar class. They all sounded the same, bad. I've played a couple of Rainsongs years ago, and thought they sounded good, not thin or metallic at all, and I expect they have improved since then. I'm picky about my guitars, and I would be more than happy with the Rainsongs I tried. But you really need to try them for yourself.
__________________
Tony Done
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=784456
http://www.flickr.com/photos/done_family/
Tony Done is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2014, 09:31 PM   #10
stepchildusmc
Registered User
 
stepchildusmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by msarro
I had never heard of carbon fiber guitars until your post, I youtubed some videos to see what the sound was like. I was actually pretty surprised at how good they sound. Sadly they seem to lack the warmth and voice that I think a lot of solid wood guitars have though, that's not to say they sound bad, just a little more hollow.

oh... you've been missing out on some great guitars !
my Adamas 2080sr get as much laptime as the taylors and martins. whats even better is that they are much less susceptible to humidity issues like their wooden brethren. I can take mine camping, leave it in the car for a SHORT time.
__________________
need more gear and a lot more talent(courtesytuxs)
stepchildusmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2014, 02:51 PM   #11
MikeBmusic
Never enuf guitars
 
MikeBmusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: New England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Done
That made me think that spraying the inside with lacquer might fix it, even on a spruce top. I'm sure it wouldn't affect tone. and it might improve stability.



I'm sure IT WOULD affect the tone! If coating the inside of a guitar didn't affect sound and promoted moisture stability, don't you think manufacturers would have been doing it decades ago?
__________________
My reverbnation page


2012 Taylor 310ce
2011 Fender CD140SCE
Ibanez 12 string a/e
73 Epi 6830E
72 Fender Telecaster
Epi Dot Studio
Epi LP Jr
Chinese Strat clone
Washburn Mandolin
Luna 'tatoo' a/e uke
antique banjolin
Squire J bass
MikeBmusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2014, 03:22 PM   #12
Tony Done
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeBmusic
I'm sure IT WOULD affect the tone! If coating the inside of a guitar didn't affect sound and promoted moisture stability, don't you think manufacturers would have been doing it decades ago?


I dunno, it has been done by some luthiers. The amount of added mass would tiny, and most of it would end up on the back and sides and no vibrating areas. Maybe they don't do it because it is an added, unnecessary and possibly tricky step that would take more care with a small spray gun. With today's automated spray booths it would a major additional step. And it isn't traditional. I occasionally have a rant about all the hocus pocus attached to guitar construction, but I will resist the temptation this time.

Here's a discussion from AGF:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...p/t-202066.html
__________________
Tony Done
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=784456
http://www.flickr.com/photos/done_family/
Tony Done is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2014, 05:11 PM   #13
Captaincranky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Done
I dunno, it has been done by some luthiers. The amount of added mass would tiny, and most of it would end up on the back and sides and no vibrating areas. Maybe they don't do it because it is an added, unnecessary and possibly tricky step that would take more care with a small spray gun. With today's automated spray booths it would a major additional step. And it isn't traditional. I occasionally have a rant about all the hocus pocus attached to guitar construction, but I will resist the temptation this time.

OK, it's quite difficult to spray into blind corners, not to mention that any type of spray equipment involved would have to be pressure fed, as the most common types of spray guns, (and airbrushes), are either siphon or gravity feed, hence requiring the utensil to be held pretty much vertically when in use.

"Plan B", would encompass spraying the parts before assembly, masking off the gluing surfaces. (You can't use wood glue on top of paint, it won't stick properly.

FWIW, asymmetric finishing of wood leads to failure. By all that's holy, the inside of a piece should be finished the same as the exterior. Not doing so, leaves the possibility af asymmetric expansion/contraction cycles with respect to variations in temperature and/or humidity. Does that sound familiar?

But than again, who has the time to finish the insides of drawers, or the backs of cabinets.

And now the editorial. I'm going to call "bullshit" on this whole topic.

Wood allergies are most often from leaves, pollen, dust and sap. None of these are present in the cured, processed, and finished wood of a guitar. In fact, those woods are so far cured, you certainly can't even smell "pine" when you pop one out of its box, brand new.

So, if I put my hands all over the outside of a new guitar and get a rash, it's much more likely I'm allergic to polyurethane.

Since spruce, pine, and fir are used almost exclusively in home framing, plywood, (exterior and interior), and the family Christmas tree, this enhances my doubt as to the veracity of the of this topic.

Allergy panels break the skin, and are designed to point out allergic reactions of which you would not normally be aware. They tend to over dramatize the situation.

So, unless you're going to be rubbing the inside of the guitar frequently, I can't see very much in the way of potential dangers.

Now, wood allergies are much more likely to manifest in the context of walking through the forest, or machining whatever species. In fact, some woods are outright toxic when dust is generated by machining them, and respiratory protection must be employed while doing so.

Now, a severe allergy to types of woods that are so prevalent in today's society, almost reduces one to the "boy in the bubble" status.

If I do too many dishes, my hands get irritated. Does this mean I'm allergic to dish detergent? Yes, but the dishes still have to be done, and so I live with it.

I'm not trolling here, just providing an alternative conclusion, whether I'm right or wrong.

Here's the Goolgle search results for, "allergy to spruce": https://www.google.com/search?q=all...el=np&source=hp

I'm sure there's a ton of material that would promote further discussion, speculation, or hopefully, insight.

Last edited by Captaincranky : 08-30-2014 at 05:18 AM.
Captaincranky is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:57 PM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.