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Old 08-28-2014, 10:51 PM   #21
dementiacaptain
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Solid state (and digital) amps are pretty rocking for certain applications. For djent I can imagine anything better than a good modeler, I prefer solid-state clean tones, and some pretty iconic distorted tones have been made with solid-states. That being said, most folks generally prefer tube amps, they have a certain idea of how an electric guitar should sound and the fact is that sound is a good tube amp.

I know I love my tubes, but that doesn't mean I'll write off the other technologies.
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Old 08-28-2014, 10:53 PM   #22
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For me solid states amps works only in small amps...

Try Roland ones... The cube series... But remember, the small ones!!!
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Old 08-28-2014, 11:18 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul.housley.7
A
Now here is a very simple tube amp:
It's a Fender Champ 5c1 and they don't get much simpler than this. 1 preamp tube, 1 power tube, 1 output transformer (necessary when using vacuum tubes) and 1 power transformer (also necessary) This amp costs a hell of a lot more than 20 dollars to build. In fact - the output transformer alone costs more than 20 dollars, and that's only if you source it from one of the cheaper vendors.


This is all true if you're going to build a one-off and you're going to source from retail vendors. If you're Fender, your costs are right around 10% of the actual sell price of the item. That's true whether the item is tube-based or solid state.
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Old 08-28-2014, 11:23 PM   #24
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Yeah, but everything scales accordingly. It's cost me less to build a 100W SS bass amp than a 20W tube guitar amp. I may be paying more for the parts than say, Fender, but the relative costs remain.
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Old 08-28-2014, 11:34 PM   #25
dspellman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielburgos
For me solid states amps works only in small amps...



I only have large ones. One is a 1971 Carvin with 275W. The cabinet that went with this thing is huge, a 4' tall x 30" wide closed back ported monster with a pair of 15" Altec Lansing 418-8A speakers and a mids/high horn.

My bass amp is a 1500W (solid state, natch) buttkicker.
I play guitar through a modeler and the keys and modeler go into a mixer and into a 1500W power amp and from there into a pair of 900W full range speaker cabs. Honestly, solid state works very well in large doses, too.
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Old 08-28-2014, 11:45 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Cathbard
Yeah, but everything scales accordingly. It's cost me less to build a 100W SS bass amp than a 20W tube guitar amp. I may be paying more for the parts than say, Fender, but the relative costs remain.


No question that solid state is less expensive, more powerful, lighter weight, etc., than tube stuff. Guitarists are pretty much the only notable segment of the population that really use it. A 1500W solid state amp head (without wooden case) weighs in at 9-10 pounds. I have a relatively lightweight 100W tube rackmount power amp that weighs 25 lbs. I've also got a 1x12 100W combo that weighs over 60 lbs.

And finally, tube stuff is generally more delicate than solid state amps. Heavy transformers can bend chassis (or pull free completely), tubes can break, etc. Tubes can fail with no notice at any time. It's relatively straightforward to fix, but that's a bit of a pyrrhic advantage.
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Old 08-29-2014, 01:19 AM   #27
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all of my solid state amps are old big ones, they sound great imo
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Old 08-29-2014, 02:38 AM   #28
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i think there's an important distinction to be made between solid states and modelling amps. solid state amps are built to be good amplifiers in their own right where modeling amplifiers use computers to imitate other amplifiers and because of their digital nature lose the more natural feeling sound of a normal amplifier's analog signal. modeling amplifiers will never sound as good as the real deal (and i personally detest them)

solid state amps are played by a lot of jazz players and in some metal as they do cleans and ubergain well. tube clipping is something people who play just about everything in between covet though which is why tube amplifiers are so desirable.
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Old 08-29-2014, 05:10 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurtebirdi
i think there's an important distinction to be made between solid states and modelling amps. solid state amps are built to be good amplifiers in their own right where modeling amplifiers use computers to imitate other amplifiers and because of their digital nature lose the more natural feeling sound of a normal amplifier's analog signal. modeling amplifiers will never sound as good as the real deal (and i personally detest them)

solid state amps are played by a lot of jazz players and in some metal as they do cleans and ubergain well. tube clipping is something people who play just about everything in between covet though which is why tube amplifiers are so desirable.


Bro do you even Kemper?
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Old 08-29-2014, 05:23 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by The Judist
Sure a a great all tube amp might sound slightly better in isolation, but it's never 4-7 times better like it is in price.
My (tube) amp cost me less than whatever peavey bandit I can find now.
And I also think it sounds better...
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Originally Posted by The Judist
Tubes are only a few pence to make and the transformers too
Well ideally yes, but the parts are not the only expense in building an amp, and a good transformer alone costs more than a bandit, sssooo...
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Originally Posted by MatrixClaw
The Ampeg VH-140C, and its variants, are still one of the best amps ever made.
The variants were made a bit on the cheap-er, though I agree on the VH-140C.
Ammmaazing amp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurtebirdi
solid state amps are built to be good amplifiers in their own right where modeling amplifiers use computers to imitate other amplifiers and because of their digital nature lose the more natural feeling sound of a normal amplifier's analog signal. modeling amplifiers will never sound as good as the real deal (and i personally detest them).
While this is pretty elitist, it's true IMO.

Apart from the last sentence, which is only elitist.
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Originally Posted by Offworld92
Bro do you even Kemper?
Oww come on, even a kemper doesn't really sound as the amp it's copying.
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Old 08-29-2014, 05:27 AM   #31
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Kemper can fool anyone listening with their eyes closed, easily. I mean considering what year we're in, that's pretty damn impressive. Does it sound exactly the same? Maybe not exactly the same. But kurtebirdi is full of shit regardless.

Jury's still out on the feel though.
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Old 08-29-2014, 06:44 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Offworld92
Kemper can fool anyone listening with their eyes closed, easily.
*cough* ahem *cough cough* eeeeehhh...

I mean, it has a lot of advantages - a looot of advantages, though I don't really think the sound's the same.
Or the feel, whatever the difference is.
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Old 08-29-2014, 08:24 AM   #33
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The Bandit is a really solid amp and IT IS incredible for the price. And the sheer diversity of tones it can do is quite amazing. It's far more than just a "starter amp", particularly in terms of distortion.
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Old 08-29-2014, 10:45 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurtebirdi
i think there's an important distinction to be made between solid states and modelling amps. solid state amps are built to be good amplifiers in their own right where modeling amplifiers use computers to imitate other amplifiers and because of their digital nature lose the more natural feeling sound of a normal amplifier's analog signal. modeling amplifiers will never sound as good as the real deal (and i personally detest them)

solid state amps are played by a lot of jazz players and in some metal as they do cleans and ubergain well. tube clipping is something people who play just about everything in between covet though which is why tube amplifiers are so desirable.


Horse manure. I have about 15 tube amps and have used them for years. Love them to death. I've got tube preamps that have nine 12AX7 tubes, 11 gain stages, four channels, half a dozen FX loops and more. I've got Bruce Egnater tube amps that have interchangeable tube modules (they predate the Randall setups that license that tech from Bruce) that are, essentially, tube based modelers. I've also had solid state amps since the original Vox Super Beatle. And, of course, now have a number of Pods and the Axe-FX Ultra, plus three Variax guitars.

As a keyboard player (I started on classical pipe organ), I had to listen to a lot of elitist nonsense about how an electronic keyboard could never hold a candle to a german grand, etc., often from people who'd never touched a german grand. These days, it's a rare pianist who's NOT playing (and appreciating) a Korg or a Yamaha or a Nord, etc. electronic keyboard. My Korg Kronos X even has the ability to mimic how much the top cover of the grand is open. More than that, I can control the breath effects of a tenor sax performance (to say nothing of the dynamics).

I have a Torpedo C.A.B. which can not only easily duplicate tube clipping, but can also model a particular power amp (EL34, EL84, 6L6, etc.). And you can play those differences in the same way that you do with a "real" tube amp.

My suggestion is that you simply haven't kept up.

Walking into a guitar shop and flipping through the demo presets for 10 minutes is a far cry from actually using the digital units. Heck, even people like Neal Schon (famous tube amp owner) and Metallica had factory personnel come out to help them set up their modelers (in this case, Axe-FX) for touring. Once you've gotten into them, however, things change.

I still have half a dozen tube amps in my den. The rest (including four 4x12s) sit in storage, awaiting rotation. But they rarely go to play out these days.

Last edited by dspellman : 08-29-2014 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 08-29-2014, 12:21 PM   #35
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Like Dspellman I have owned a series of tube and solid state amps over a lot of years. My first SS was a VOX Royal Guardsman and at the time I thought it sounded great (wish I still had it). I then had a Fender Twin (excellent amp but too heavy with JBL spkrs.) then a Marshal (that blew tubes every few months, but it beat up when I bought it), then a Peavey Mace tube amp and since then a series of SS amps. The past few years I have been using a VOX VT30 and VT50 they are light, portable and very good sounding. Whatever amp you have will sound different in every club you play in. Those subtle warm tones from tube amps won't be noticed above the noise from the bar. Buy what works for the kind of playing you do. If you only play one style you can find the amp that works for you but maybe not for next guy. Some of comments here come off like "everyone should get what I have" instead of reliable information..

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Old 08-29-2014, 12:27 PM   #36
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SS suck get a tube
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Old 08-29-2014, 12:32 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by QOTSA-SFTD
Peavey Bandit in my opinion is a very respectable good amp compared to other SS's, especially the Spyder.


Funny, I got one. I don't use it anymore cause I ****ing shocked me twice.
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Old 08-29-2014, 02:54 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Cathbard
Really? Have you ever built a tube amp or are you just talking out of your arse regarding the cost of parts?
I've built many (and several SS ones), and I am here to tell you that you're full of shit.


Also you can buy a jet city for less than a peavey bandit. at least here in the UK you can.

I've never actually tried a bandit properly. I did try one once when I was thinking of getting my marshall avt, but i was an idiot and didn't understand the pre and post gain knobs. To be fair, peavey's labelling is very confusing, especially if you're a pretty new player.

I'd be the first to agree that not all tube amps are good, and that not all SS amps are bad. But as colin said, ss tends to be used for cheap starter amps, while tube tends to be used for more expensive amps, so more often than not tube is better. at least for the tones i want.

there are also some pretty cool tricks you can do with tube amps which tend not to work as well with SS- boosting, stacking pedal and amp dirt, etc etc.

it's like most things... there are some snobs, but there are also some anti-snobs, too. I'm not sure either is more sensible.

Saying you prefer tube to SS doesn't necessarily mean you're a snob.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Offworld92
Jury's still out on the feel though.


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Old 08-29-2014, 04:32 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Spambot_2
*cough* ahem *cough cough* eeeeehhh...

I mean, it has a lot of advantages - a looot of advantages, though I don't really think the sound's the same.
Or the feel, whatever the difference is.


Come on now, if you say that's not close enough for recording, you're just lying to yourself.

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Old 08-29-2014, 04:36 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Dave_Mc
Also you can buy a jet city for less than a peavey bandit. at least here in the UK you can.

I've never actually tried a bandit properly. I did try one once when I was thinking of getting my marshall avt, but i was an idiot and didn't understand the pre and post gain knobs. To be fair, peavey's labelling is very confusing, especially if you're a pretty new player.

I'd be the first to agree that not all tube amps are good, and that not all SS amps are bad. But as colin said, ss tends to be used for cheap starter amps, while tube tends to be used for more expensive amps, so more often than not tube is better. at least for the tones i want.

there are also some pretty cool tricks you can do with tube amps which tend not to work as well with SS- boosting, stacking pedal and amp dirt, etc etc.

it's like most things... there are some snobs, but there are also some anti-snobs, too. I'm not sure either is more sensible.

Saying you prefer tube to SS doesn't necessarily mean you're a snob.





The Bandit was a pretty fun amp when I used it. The voicings on it let you cover all ground of any type of music you want to play.
There's a knob on there which allows you to change the dynamics of the amplifier to emulate the response of a tube amp. It's interesting.

It's not the best but it's not bad.
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