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Old 08-31-2014, 08:50 PM   #1
Insanus82
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6505+ and Jackson = not good for atmospheric black?

I play in a band on which we practice an atmospheric approach of black metal, with all that avantgarde and ambiental stuff of bands like Altar of Plagues, Wolves in The throne room, Agalloch, Ash Borer, Drudkh.

In rehearsals I use a Blackstar HT combo and stuff like that. However, playing my first gigs using a Blackstar 200w head and sometimes a Peavey 6505+ combo linked to a 4x12 cab, i realized that this is not at all the optimal rig. First, because I use a Jackson DKMGT with 81/85 active pickups and the amps sound unfit, even after adding the typical reverbs (tried without them as well) and extensível eq. I just feel not being on the spot even after extensive eq and due to the lack of flexibility. That leaves me with the desire to change equipment, or test at least some other options.

So, the questions:

1) Dropping the Jackson for a Hagstrom Ultra Swede will help me achieve a more satisfying sound considering the genre and sounds that I gave as influences? The Passive pickups of the swede would performance better than high gain active ones that I use?

2) For gigging, a Marshal DSL would be more versatile and fulfilling considering that I alternate a lot between High gain black metal like Wolves in the throne room and clean pasband, s like Agalloch?



Sorry if I appear rather confused but these past gigs really shattered the faith on my gear, not because I can't be beard, but as the sole guitar player of my band I really feel the pressure to get a great tone and pass it to the audience
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Old 09-01-2014, 12:36 AM   #2
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Have you tried the rhythm channel of your 6505, especially with some lower gain tubes like a 5751 in V1? That channel is a lot more "Marshally" to my ears (with crunch switch pushed in, of course.)

Agalloch definitely uses more "vintage" gear and not such high gain amps as the 6505. I stood 5 feet away from the band for a whole show a couple years back, and for the life of me, I can't remember what amps they used. Their guitars were not your typical metal guitars though -- definitely passive pups.

For Drudkh, though, you might need a lot of gain, so I don't know. I'd say a DSL is worth checking out, especially because cleans will be very important to your genre. I actually really like my 6505/active Blackouts for black metal but my style is more in the vein of Immortal and Emperor.
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Old 09-01-2014, 05:22 AM   #3
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You should probably have something like a Peavey JSX.
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Old 09-01-2014, 05:42 AM   #4
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Old 09-01-2014, 07:11 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Offworld92
You should probably have something like a Peavey JSX.

This
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Old 09-01-2014, 09:15 PM   #6
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So are you feeling that you are not getting a usable clean tone or does the distortion sound wrong to you too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KailM
Their guitars were not your typical metal guitars though -- definitely passive pups.


Last time I saw them one of the guitarists used a Travis Bean, can't remember what the other dude used.
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Old 09-02-2014, 08:54 AM   #7
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So you're saying you can't get a good sound from an EMG81 and a Peavey 6505+? No offense but it sounds like user error to me.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:56 AM   #8
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Agalloch:
John plays a Travis Bean Tb1000 through an Orange Rockerverb for Distortion and a Fender Twin Reverb for Clean sound.
Don plays a Gibson Les Paul Custom and a Gibson SG Standard through a Marshall JCM900 HGDR.

WITTR: JCM800 100W Single Channel with a lot of reverb.


For this style of BM i would suggest you the already mentioned Marshall DSL100 .
(look for the old one / made in UK) or a JVM205.

A Laney VH100R would also fit this style very well.

Last edited by resum : 09-02-2014 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:13 AM   #9
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Black Metal has mostly been quite Marshall dominated genre from what I have seen.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:42 AM   #10
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I play a lot of similar music as you, actually you listed most of my favourite bands up there. I'm pretty sure that when I get enough money, I'm going to get rid of my 6506+. I'd say that a nice, mid/high gain amp with a british vibe would be better, I've loved some Marshalls that I've tried, and also Laneys have delivered some great black metal tones. Keep in mind that some drive pedals might have the exact sound that you're looking for.
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:48 PM   #11
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I am not that huge of a fan of actives but for metal they work.
I think 6505 should be able to deliver. Maybe try some tone enhancement, like set the amp on crunch and run a few distortion pedals on mild settings, blending the two, maybe some eq pedals, chorus for the clean, don't be afraid to roll back volume and tone controls, on actives you should not lose fidelity.
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:59 PM   #12
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OD as a clean boost?
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitenexus
So you're saying you can't get a good sound from an EMG81 and a Peavey 6505+? No offense but it sounds like user error to me.


That combination will do traditional/second-wave black metal for sure. But TS mentioned a lot of bands that definitely use a softer, less abrasive tone. Agalloch, in particular, doesn't use near that much gain. A 6505+ w/ actives just wants to be pummeling people in the face 24/7 (which is what I love about mine ), but that's not really what those bands are about.
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:58 PM   #14
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You can't tune it darker via the eq and dial less gain? You can even decrease the gain via lower gain preamp tubes.
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:16 PM   #15
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when it comes to BM, honestly you can use any guitar or amp. as long as you have enough gain in your signal chain to get a lot of distortion you're fine. use your bridge pickup, set the treble to 8, mids to 6 and the bass to 4.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadsmileyface
when it comes to BM, honestly you can use any guitar or amp. as long as you have enough gain in your signal chain to get a lot of distortion you're fine. use your bridge pickup, set the treble to 8, mids to 6 and the bass to 4.


I really have to disagree with you. That's like saying "you can play jazz with any guitar and an amp, just use the clean channel and the neck pickup". Not wrong, but also not very good advice if TS wants to have a great, memorable tone. And a lot of black metal doesn't even use that much gain, and of course clean tones are extremely important in the genre too.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:14 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar/bass95
I really have to disagree with you. That's like saying "you can play jazz with any guitar and an amp, just use the clean channel and the neck pickup". Not wrong, but also not very good advice if TS wants to have a great, memorable tone. And a lot of black metal doesn't even use that much gain, and of course clean tones are extremely important in the genre too.


i will see you both half way. not all amps do everything well. but most can or can get reasonably usable for most.

you could play some sweet sounding jazz tones out of my MKIV's clean channel. heavy distorted metal too.

you can throw a distortion pedal in front of an jazz chorus and it would sound ok, but for jazz you can't get it.
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:25 AM   #18
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OP i had a DKMGT as well with the active EMG's. pretty nice guitar. there really isn't a reason why it wouldn't work.

worst case scenario maybe a pickup swap. but still i don't get it.

i went from jacksons to ibanez prestiges, i like the ibbys more, but they all nice guitars.
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:49 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KailM
That combination will do traditional/second-wave black metal for sure. But TS mentioned a lot of bands that definitely use a softer, less abrasive tone. Agalloch, in particular, doesn't use near that much gain. A 6505+ w/ actives just wants to be pummeling people in the face 24/7 (which is what I love about mine ), but that's not really what those bands are about.



True, but it is a pretty versatile amp, and with just a few tweaks of the EQ and gain controls you can cover any genre of metal and sound good doing it. I think swapping pickups for something like a JB might be a better first step if he's looking for something softer (or using the crunch channel).
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