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Old 04-29-2005, 06:08 PM   #1
e10sc
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I don't understand how scales are applied to songs

I know it's probably really stupid, but I don't see how scales are connected with song writing. When I see scales, they don't really look like any song I've seen. I'm new to scales and this is my first roadblock.

I was also looking at this lesson that seems really helpful, is this the kind of thing I should be looking at?

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/less...dictionary.html
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Old 04-29-2005, 06:15 PM   #2
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scales are basicly just to show you what notes sound good together, gives you a bigger veiw of the fretboard and makes improvisation much easier.
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Old 04-29-2005, 06:16 PM   #3
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well.. ill try my best. this is as best as i can describe it, me being pretty untrained in music theory. scales is a combination of notes that fit a pattern. say you had a song with that went C, D, G.. you could solo in it using the Cmajor scale or Aminor scale, because C Major scale has no sharps/flats, neither does A minor, and neither does that chord progression, so the notes won't sound "wrong". I could be wrong, but thats how I view it.
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Old 04-29-2005, 06:19 PM   #4
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Scales are just a bunch of notes that sound relevantly good with each other, in any order. Out of scales comes your chord progressions, solos, and melodies.
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Old 04-29-2005, 06:23 PM   #5
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Scales can organize your notes, so that your music doesnt sound like crap.

But thats a good lesson there
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Old 04-29-2005, 06:27 PM   #6
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Okay cool, should I try and memorize each scale? It seems like a daunting task. Can someone show me an example of a song that uses a scale? I'd like to see how it works.
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Old 04-29-2005, 06:54 PM   #7
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theres too many scales to memorize them all. stairway to heaven uses scales in the solo and the progressions almost every song does.
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Old 04-29-2005, 06:56 PM   #8
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Really... How should I go about learning them, if I know there's no hope of memorizing?
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Old 04-29-2005, 07:00 PM   #9
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well.. ill try my best. this is as best as i can describe it, me being pretty untrained in music theory. scales is a combination of notes that fit a pattern. say you had a song with that went C, D, G.. you could solo in it using the Cmajor scale or Aminor scale, because C Major scale has no sharps/flats, neither does A minor, and neither does that chord progression, so the notes won't sound "wrong". I could be wrong, but thats how I view it.



since when is D in C major??
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Old 04-29-2005, 07:03 PM   #10
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And the confusion mounts...

Maybe I should ask it this way. What are the things I need to know or be able to do before I attempt to start learning theory, scales, modes, and whatever else?
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Old 04-29-2005, 07:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by e10sc
And the confusion mounts...

Maybe I should ask it this way. What are the things I need to know or be able to do before I attempt to start learning theory, scales, modes, and whatever else?
Thats' pretty much where you have to start.

If you know you can't memorize scales, just understand how they work.
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Old 04-29-2005, 08:25 PM   #12
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Ok, I'm not trying to make anyone feel or look stupid, but I don't know where your knoledge starts, so here is it goes.

There are only 12 notes out there, then they all repeat and eventually they are too high or too low for human ears to hear them.

Many songs will be in a certian 'Key' This means they will only use a specific set of the notes.

A scale is each note in a certain key played in a row ascending or descending.

The simlest key to remember is Am (A minor), it goes like this
A, B, C, D, E, F, G, A
(for each minor key, there is a 'relative major', this is just the same notes, starting at the 3rd one. So the relative major key for A minor is 'C major' it goes 'C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C', and you can find the 'relative minor' by looking at the 3rd last note of a major scale)

Chords are made up of notes in a scale, and the song is made up of chords, to find the key of a song, you must know the chords in the song. To make chords, you can count notes in the scale. One chord will be the 1-3-5 notes in the scale, the next chord will be 2-4-6, then 3-5-7, etc. So the chords in C major are...
A, C, E (A minor)
B, D, F (B Dim) >>Diminshed chords are scary, ignor them for now
C, E, G (C major)
D, F, A (D minor)
E, G, B (E minor)
F, A, C (F major)
and finally
G, B, D (G major)

If you were to play any of these chords in a progression, you could use the notes in C major (A minor) in a solo and it would sound good.

This logic applies to all major and minor scales, don't worry about anything else you hear until you understand this better.

(the other thing you can do it play the scale with the same name as a chord over that chord, and when it changes, change scales)
If you heard a progression that went >>G major, D major, C major
you could play G major over all of them (that is the key with these chords) or you could play the scale with the same name as the chord that is being played at the time. you can e-mail me if you need more clairification
>>Houdinilogic@hotmail.com
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Old 04-29-2005, 08:41 PM   #13
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Every song uses a scale. Chromatic or what ever, it has a scale.
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Old 04-29-2005, 09:02 PM   #14
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Hmm, the light's starting to come on... So when talking about C Major and A Minor, are those equal? And also, there are so many scales out there, and I have very basic knowledge, what's the first thing I need to do?
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Old 04-29-2005, 09:20 PM   #15
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well there are things called intervals, this is the space between notes, we call going up one fret a half step, and 2 frets a whole step. This is because most notes are a whole step away from eachother, A-B is a whole step (with Bb in the middle) there are patterns of intervals you can follow to make up scales
Whole, WHole, Half, whole, whole, whole, half makes major
whole, half , whole, whole, half, whole, whole, makes minor
you can start on any note and follow these patterns to find ths scale. then there are things like "melodic" and "harmonic" minor scales, which will have differant intervals, but the same idea.
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Old 04-29-2005, 09:24 PM   #16
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Am and C are equal in the fact that they share the same notes, but not in their tonality. I suggest you go back to that lesson (Because I wrote it ) and learn the modes. Scales arent really hard to memorize. They come over time.

So practice hard, because I want to see some bleeding fingers!!!1!!one1!!
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Old 04-29-2005, 10:32 PM   #17
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I know the modes fairly well thank you. You can talk all day about the differance they make, but when ut comes down to it, notes are notes, and if the sound good they sound good. I just use the notes/scales etc. to help me harmonize, and to figure things out. I find it easier to understand keys, and chords, and ignor modes and inversions and that type of thing unless you really need it.
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Old 04-29-2005, 11:38 PM   #18
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^Hahaha, I'm hardcore Modes, so thats what I'd reccomend, but understanding scales are a MUUUUUSSSSSSTTTTTT.
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Old 04-30-2005, 02:27 AM   #19
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So... should I go back and learn modes before scales? I'm not even sure what modes are.
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Old 04-30-2005, 02:29 AM   #20
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^ No, you should learn about notes, intervals, and how to build the major scale before anything else.
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