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Old 04-30-2005, 11:37 AM   #21
e10sc
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I know about notes, I just don't have each fret memorized, intervals I don't know, I'll search the lessons right now, and I'm not sure what the major scale is, is that like the pentatonic or whatever? I'll search for that one too, thanks for the replies and help you all.

Well I did a search on intervals and couldn't find anything, but I found a couple on major scales, so I'll check those out later. What are modes?
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Old 04-30-2005, 12:03 PM   #22
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Modes are something you shouldn't worry about until you fully learn the major scale in all 12 keys.

The major scale is built using a pattern of intervals that you've probably seen already, W W H W W W H. But what does that mean?
Code:
W = whole step H = half step W W H W W W H C D E F G A B C F G A Bb C D E F Bb C D Eb F G A Bb G A B C D E F# G etc.

All major scales have the same pattern of intervals!

Another way to learn the major scales is to use the Circle of 5ths?

Circle of 5ths
The Circle of 5ths (Co5) is generally used for determining what notes are in what key. Some people find it extremely useful, while others never use it. I think it's a very effective tool in constructing the diatonic major scales.

Now, there are 12 keys, one for each note in the western chromatic scale. In each key there are 7 different notes, A through G. What makes all these keys different, you ask? Well, in each key there are different variations of those 7 notes. Some have sharps (#) while some have flats (b). A sharp (#) indicates that the pitch is raised one semitone, while a flat (b) indicates lowering one semitone. When writing scales you must have one of each letter A through G. In other words, you cannot have A A# C C# E E# G A, or something like that! You must have A B C D E F G A. One of each letter.

Now, on to the actual circle! This is what it looks like:
Code:
.......C........ ...G.......F.... .D...........Bb. A.............Eb .E...........Ab. ...B.......Db... .....F#/Gb......


The top key is C. It is the simplest key, and has no sharps or flats. As you progress clockwise (flatwise) around the Co5, you add flats, 1 per key you progress. The same is true for sharps - as you progress counterclockwise, you add sharps, 1 per key. Therefore, using this rule, you can figure out how many flats/sharps each key has. Here's a quick list:
C - 0 sharps
G - 1 sharp
D - 2 sharps
A - 3 sharps
E - 4 sharps
B - 5 sharps
F# - 6 sharps
C# - 7 sharps (often written as Db, they are enharmonic)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
C - 0 flats
F - 1 flat
Bb - 2 flats
Eb - 3 flats
Ab - 4 flats
Db - 5 flats
Gb - 6 flats
Cb - 7 flats (often written as B, they are enharmonic)

Now, how do you add these sharps and flats? There is a specific order to do it in! The order for sharps is F# C# G# D# A# E# B#, while the order for flats is roughly the opposite, Bb Eb Ab Db Gb Cb Fb.

Combining all of this knowledge, you can determine the notes of any key!
C - C D E F G A B C
F - F G A Bb C D E F
Bb - Bb C D Eb F G A Bb
Eb - Eb F G Ab Bb C D Eb
Ab - Ab Bb C Db Eb F G Ab
Db - Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C Db
Gb - Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F Gb
Cb - Cb Db Eb Fb Gb Ab Bb Cb
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
C - C D E F G A B C
G - G A B C D E F# G
D - D E F# G A B C# D
A - A B C# D E F# G# A
E - E F# G# A B C# D# E
B - B C# D# E F# G# A# B
F# - F# G# A# B C# D# E# F#
C# - C# D# E# F# G# A# B# C#

You should be able to see in all those keys that the pattern of W W H W W W H still stands.

Now, what are intervals? An interval is the space between two notes.

Let's take an easy key - C major. Notes are C D E F G A B C.
We can think of this scale in terms of scale degrees, where each note is assigned a number. Incidentally, these numbers match with intervals; this is because the major scale is the basis for 95% of western music in that everything is written in relation to it.
Code:
Note: C D E F G A B C Degree: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1

Those degrees are intervals as well in relation to the note C. Here's a list of the possible intervals:
Code:
Interval - Name - Note (key of C) - Distance 1 - Unison - C - 0 steps b2 - minor second - Db - .5 steps 2 - major second - D - 1 step #2 - sharp second - D# - 1.5 steps b3 - minor third - Eb - 1.5 steps 3 - major third - E - 2 steps 4 - perfect fourth - F - 2.5 steps #4 - augmented fourth - F# - 3 steps (tritone) b5 - diminished fifth - Gb - 3 steps (tritone) 5 - perfect fifth - G - 3.5 steps #5 - augmented fifth - G# - 4 steps b6 - minor sixth - Ab - 4 steps 6 - major sixth - A - 4.5 steps #6 - sharp sixth - A# - 5 steps b7 - minor seventh - Bb - 5 steps 7 - major seventh - B - 5.5 steps 8 - octave - C - 6 steps b9 - minor ninth - Db - 6.5 steps etc. The interval names and notes repeat such that: 2 = 9 4 = 11 6 = 13 The only difference is that a 9th is an octave farther apart than a 2nd.


And none of you give me crap about there being no such thing as a #2 or #6, they exist. E7#9 and Emaj7(#13) for example.

Questions?

-SilentDeftone
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Old 04-30-2005, 12:27 PM   #23
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Scales

Scales basically are what make up all songs. While you may not "see" them in music they are very common. They are the base notes in choards and they are actually very commonly used all over the place. Keep working on scales they are very helpful.
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Old 04-30-2005, 12:36 PM   #24
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SD, you say that C has no sharps or flats, but when it comes to notes on the fretboard C has a sharp right? I still don't quite get it.
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Old 04-30-2005, 12:41 PM   #25
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The key of C has no sharps or flats. You can have a C# note or scale or chord? but it won't be in the key of C.

C#, C, and Cb all are legitimate notes on the fretboard!

-SD
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Old 04-30-2005, 12:45 PM   #26
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Okay that clears it up. thanks
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Old 04-30-2005, 02:37 PM   #27
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Actually, I was just looking at the scales, I am completely clueless when you were talking about intervals, I don't understand the notation, or anything else for that matter.
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Old 04-30-2005, 03:37 PM   #28
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The interval between C and C is unison - 1
The interval between C and D is a major second - 2
The interval between C and E is a major 3rd - 3
etc.

What don't you understand? Please make your question more specific.

-SD
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Old 04-30-2005, 08:29 PM   #29
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Are intervals the distance a note is away from C? And if so, how are they measured with "b"s, what do those bs mean? Sorry if I'm frustrating you. I'm just trying to get this down.
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Old 04-30-2005, 08:40 PM   #30
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Not necessarily C; you can have intervals between any two notes that don't include C. For example, the interval between D and F is a minor 3rd (3 semitones).

b means flat - to lower a half step (1 fret down).
# means sharp - to raise a half step (1 fret up).

I'm adding to the chart.

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Old 04-30-2005, 08:45 PM   #31
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So for the major scale, WWHWWWH, the halves are the #'s or b's? And so it could be A B C# D E F F#?
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Old 04-30-2005, 08:50 PM   #32
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Okay the updated chart helps, but I thought of another question. For scales, does it matter the distance from the original key a note is? For example if the scale is WWHWWWH, could it be any sharp or flat note, or would it have to be a certain distance away?
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Old 04-30-2005, 08:50 PM   #33
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E to F is a half step - what you wrote is W W H W H H:
Code:
W W H W H H A B C# D E F F#


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Old 04-30-2005, 08:55 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by e10sc
For scales, does it matter the distance from the original key a note is? For example if the scale is WWHWWWH, could it be any sharp or flat note, or would it have to be a certain distance away?
Yes, it does matter how far from the original note (root) a note is? all major scales follow intervals 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8(1).

Okay, this is how intervals tie in with WWHWWWH. Since you have 7 W/H's, there are 8 notes in any scale (7 if you discount the octave as a separate note, since it has the same note name). So you'll have something like this:
Code:
W W H W W W H Note 1 Note 2 Note 3 Note 4 Note 5 Note 6 Note 7 Note 1
Let's use A as our 'Note 1', or root note. Thus we will be building an A major scale.
Code:
W A B 1 2 A to B is 1 step (W); a major 2nd. W W A B C# 1 2 3 A to C# is 2 steps (W+W); a major 3rd. W W H A B C# D 1 2 3 4 A to D is 2.5 steps (W+W+H); a perfect 4th. W W H W A B C# D E A to E is 3.5 steps (W+W+H+W); a perfect 5th. W W H W W A B C# D E F# A to F# is 4.5 steps (W+W+H+W+W); a major 6th. W W H W W W A B C# D E F# G# A to G# is 5.5 steps (W+W+H+W+W+W); a major 7th. W W H W W W H A B C# D E F# G# A A to A is 6 steps (W+W+H+W+W+W+H); an octave.


Hopefully it makes more sense now.

-SD
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Old 04-30-2005, 08:58 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by SilentDeftone
Yes, it does matter how far from the original note (root) a note is? all major scales follow intervals 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8(1).

*Will Edit in about 3 minutes*

-SD


Okay, so the reason the C major scale doesn't have any flats and sharps is because the B and C are half a step away, and the E and F are half a step? Okay, I'm starting to get it, unless what I just said is wrong, then I'm not getting it at all.
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Old 04-30-2005, 09:13 PM   #36
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Thanks so much SD, that made a lot of sense, can you go down scales? Like for the A major, instead of going to B, could you have gone to G?
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Old 04-30-2005, 09:17 PM   #37
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Sure, but then you have to use the pattern backwards - G isn't in the key of A, G# is. You'd basically start at 8, the octave, and progress to 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, and finally 1.

While I'm posting, you also must only have one of each note. For example, you couldn't write the A major scale A B Db D E Gb G Ab A (even those are enharmonic); that has 2 D notes, 2 G notes, and 2 A notes. Every note (A B C D E F G) must be represented within the scale in some form.

-SD
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Old 04-30-2005, 09:20 PM   #38
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And is that true for any scale?
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Old 04-30-2005, 09:25 PM   #39
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Almost every scale; some scales have more than 7 notes (diminished scales); also some scales are written according to functions which may require renaming.

Basically, the answer's yes. You don't need to worry about those now.

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Old 04-30-2005, 10:26 PM   #40
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My guitar teacher always tells me "think musically" and I do. e10sc, music theory is giant but in the end it really comes down to what sounds good, not exactly whats on this scale, whats in key this this. Right now I bet theory sounds "scary" and overwhelming but there is a time (soon it looks like, with the help of SilentDeftone) when everything you hear about music theory makes sense, and works.
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