amped00

im in! ill PM you at the end of the 21 days.

__________________
Member #5 of the The Haunted fan club.

metallikatt

much cheaper way. chromatic scales+metronome=speed

gpb0216

If you're interested in getting a more detailed explanation of this "slower practice = faster playing" thought process, I can highly recommend the book Effortless Mastery: Liberating the Master Musician Within by Kenny Werner. Kenny plays jazz piano, but what he says applies to any instrument. It's been out a while, so it's probably in your local library. If not, Amazon has it.

__________________
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)

Resiliance

^Another book in that vain would be "The principles of correct practice for guitar" by Jamey Andreas, which deals which issues like muscle memory and tension VERY thoroughly.

__________________
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.

Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.

sixteen times

So for the next 21 days I should play super slow... is that it?


If so, I'm in.

__________________

Ibanez RG1570 Prestige
Laney VC15
Boss DS-1
Jim Dunlop Crybaby

SHANANDO

Yeah same here when I get my guitar re-stringed. I need to build up some speed after my exams so that should keep me busy.

__________________
Kisses and cuddles.

DorkusMalorkus

Cas, thanks alot, it was a very inspiring read. I enjoyed it, and will try to do exactly what you said...

You really should write a lesson about that giving examples of what to play (if you haven't already).

__________________
We Have Better Taste Than You Club
Apply Here

casualty01

excellent book, it's basically my bible for practicing and outlook on music in general. and that's where I got most of if not all of my practice philosophies from.

including the playing fast without worry of accuracy bit. although he doesn't call them speed bursts it's part of his Practice Diamond. I make it a point to read that book once a month and I do the medititations daily. really does make a huge difference.


and resiliance, whether you agree or not, it's a very sound method of increasing your speed. short speed bursts will not screw up your muscle memory. if you play slowly and accurately for an hour and then do 5 minutes of effortless "faster than you can accurately play" bursts, that in no way is going to screw up all the work that you had done, it only compounds your progress by teaching your hands to feel comfortable playing fast.

it's a technique/method held valuble by many top players including Kenny Werner, John Petrucci, Terry Syrek, Michael Angelo, Jimmy Bruno, Troy Stetina and Michael Romeo to name but a few. and there's nothing even remotely bad you can say about any of their speed and accuracy or picking techniques (well, maybe kenny's since he doesn't play guitar but his technique is flawless on the piano)

I'm just sorry that you're not willing to give it a go due to your preconcieved muscle memory hangup.

just remember, the slow is for the muscle memory, the bursts are for developing the feeling of effortlessness while playing fast.

Cas-

__________________
What's all the buzz about??

Don't be an idiot... click and find out.

Resiliance

Hold your horses mate, I speak from experience, it has ****ed up MY muscle memory before, so please do not be so presumptuous as to assume I'm talking out of my ass, thank you.


I was just sharing my experience.

Sorry about that.


Oh, and about the "effortlessly" playing fast, that's where "The Correct Principles Of Guitar Practice" by Jamey Andreas comes in, I suggest you take a gander.

__________________
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.

Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.

sixteen times

I'm aprehensive (sp?) to do these short speed bursts now, after what Resi said... hmm...

__________________

Ibanez RG1570 Prestige
Laney VC15
Boss DS-1
Jim Dunlop Crybaby

casualty01

whoa, wipe your tears hombre'... I wasn't being presumptious, nor did I address you in any sort of nasty manner. nor did I suggest you didn't know anything of the subject. alls I said was that it is a very sound concept that will produce results and that I was sorry that you wouldn't try it. if you will re-read your last post, you made no mention of having tried it before, alls you said was "for when you MIGHT make a mistake you MIGHT **** up your muscle memory" .... two very distinct words that imply assumption on your part rather than knowledge.

had you said you've tried it before, I might have suggested that if it did screw up your muscle memory you either

1. didn't practice slow enough for a long enough period of time on the material/exercise you decided to play fast

2. didn't remain completely relaxed and clear of any thought as you did the speed bursts

3. didn't spend a long enough time applying this concept (although, if done correclty, you'll notice the difference in one session) to the material at hand.

4. weren't doing it right...


all them very important, but due to your last post, I would direct your attention to #4 especially...

the idea isn't to play the passage perfectly (you just did that for an hour at a ******ly slow speed), mistakes are to be expected (and accepted for the time being). the point is to move your fingers and picking hand faster then you CAN play accurately. as long as there is no tension, strain or intervention from the ego then your teaching your body, in that 1-2 minutes, a very valuable lesson as that is to play fast effortlessly.

I tought the same thing for the longest time and for the same reason, I tried playing fast combined with slow and it only seemed to impede me and create more tension.

but thats because I was doing it incorrectly. I wasn't paying attention to effortlessness and relaxing, I was only trying to play it fast AND perfect (which seems to be what you tried, according to your posts) when physically I could not do it without tension.... that tension leads to poor playing and inevitably messes with the muscle memory. (also, like #1 I wasn't practicing it slowly for long enough)

once I learned how to apply it properly, I started soaring in my playing ability.

now, had I gone "nope, doesn't work. I tried it, and there's no way I might have been doing it wrong so I'm not gonna listen".. I never would have gotten past a certain point. but instead (when my teacher first brought the concept of the concept of using speed bursts and kenny's book to my attention) I went "really? I tried that already and it didn't work.... hmm, well here's what I did. what's different about what you're saying and what do I need to change?"

so indeed I have been where everyone once has, I've been where you are and have done what you did, found the same problem (that playing fast was screwing shit up for me) and decided to listen, learn, experiment and then change my approach, and am now where I'm at now.

so please don't be so presumptious as to think I also don't know what I'm talking about

Cas-

__________________
What's all the buzz about??

Don't be an idiot... click and find out.

casualty01

I have "taken a gander", a couple of students of mine tried them out. remember... I teach the guitar, I'm pretty familiar with 90% of the instructional material out there. (including all the philosphy books, esoteric approaches, meditative books etc..)

basically it's kenny werners book watered down and applied to the guitar.

after reading through that book I'd never actually buy it (which I always do if I like any book or find that it may be of some use). it has some sound advice in it (and some rambling garbage) but the same thing is found in kenny's book, only more in depth and not as annoying to read imo.


Cas-

__________________
What's all the buzz about??

Don't be an idiot... click and find out.

casualty01

lol, this is one of those things i do not yet understand of the human psyche..

1. A seasoned guitar teacher and professional musician has posted about the benefits of using small intermitant speed bursts

2. A master musician who plays with the greatest musicians in the world and is held by all in high regard has written and entire book on effortless mastery of your intsrument in which playing faster than you can accurately play for short periods is a part of his advice

3. some of the fastest and most deadly accurate players in the world advocate this very concept every time they're asked about technique practice. including many more than the names I mentioned before

yet... you're apprehensive about it because some random 16 yr old bedroom shredder (no offence resiliance, really. we were all there at one time or another) has quams with the concept that all these experienced musicians who have attained that elusive technical mastery of the instrument are promoting..?


lol... ok.

well, I do understand the apprehensiveness... I do. that's the ego messing with you. we all have it.... it's saying "oh no, what if I try this breifly for 21 days and it doesn't work? well, I don't wanna lose any progress I've already made, so even though it might propell my playing and approach on the instrument far beyond what I realize right now, we should just stick to what we're doing now... "

it's a common thing. the fear of realizing theres a better way (if that better way appears to be, at first, slow) because if you find out there is a better way, the mind then has a way of kicking yourself for not trying that thing sooner and going "man, all that wasted time doing it the old way" ....

so rather than the pain of somehow thinking you've wasted time, we just stick to our old habits and patterns in the hopes that it'll work out best.

and hey, if you do try it and do it correctly and it doesn't work (which I doubt) then it's not wasted time, it's not failure.... you learned something. you learned what didn't work. and that in and of itself, if it's the only thing you learn or get out of it, is a valuable lesson.

anyways... enough with the psychology of it all...

I suggest you take the wise road and at least apply the principle (this sound principle that is known to work and used by outstanding players all over the world) again... correctly... and see if it has anything to offer you.


Cas-

__________________
What's all the buzz about??

Don't be an idiot... click and find out.

slimz

cas i think u have to much time on your hands...

casualty01

what the hell does that mean?

I educate myself on aspects of that which I have a passion for, therefore I have too much time?

I study and educate myself on the psychology of success and achievement therefore I have too much time?

great mindset you have there buddy.

Cas-

__________________
What's all the buzz about??

Don't be an idiot... click and find out.

UtBDan

I love you Cas.


If I did an hour of quote unquote ******idly slow scales with only my third playing finger (I'm a bassist here), do you think
a, I would get faster on my fretting hand
and
b, would I get my 3rd finger up to playing speed?

__________________


BA in Music theory
MusicMan Bongo, upright bass -> GK 700RBII, Ampeg 8x10

LedZep4EVA

pracitce accuracy

MidnightThunder

That is what this program focuses on. Just that. Practice does equal speed if you follow the right steps. The program speaks of how many quitars (even the famous ones) have come to a hump they can't get over and it is because they were not practicing properly. The key is to know what to practice and how to do it to obtain the results you desire. I know it sounds funny but after reading through the entire thing I agree with it. They set you up with your own "speed profile" so you can find where your current speed is and in what area of playing your weakest in. They measure in many different areas. So you can find out exactly what your good at and what your not. Also, you can bring your weak areas up by working systematically. I love it so far.

I believe if you go to the web site it will explain it far better than I'm able to. I have had it less than a week and I can say at this point it is really helping me develop skills that I did not have before, not just in the area of speed, but in others that I wanted to accel in.

You might want to check it out. If any disagree or agree with the theory this person (not sure of his name) uses, please feel free to let me know your comments. I don't mind at all knowing what others think and why. That is how I learn even more.

__________________
MidnightThunder
AKA: Shawna

gpb0216

Another view on the topic...

http://www.guitarsite.com/hotlicks/...php?t=435?nl347

__________________
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)