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Old 08-26-2006, 03:53 PM   #41
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Old 08-26-2006, 10:06 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Ziggy193
No. AC/DC was never, ever heavy metal, and they never will be. Heavy metal is Metallica, stuff like that. But AC/DC is, always has been, and always will be, hard rock.



That's funny, because as I recall, AC/DC's influences included Chuck Berry, The Rolling Stones, The Yardbirds, The Beatles, The Who...NOT Black Sabbath.

Christ, this is almost as bad as the people in the 70's who called AC/DC punk rock. At least know what you're talking about before you say something.



Hmm, not heavy metal huh? So then why everytime people list the most famous heavy metal bands are ACDC always in there. Why for every album review on this site does it say Heavy Metal in the style category. Define your term of heavy metal so that I can understand why AC/DC isn't included.


Moving on to influences, just because a band doesn't list someone as their influence, doesn't mean that band didn't have any sort of influence on their music. It could be said that Chuck Berry influenced tons of future classic rock bands, but that doesn't mean that he was one of their influences. The same goes with Hendrix who is considered to be one of the most influential guitarists of all time, however, that doesn't mean that every single band who plays music that is similar to his or evolved from his influences is going to list him as an influence. When I said that Sabbath influenced them, I didn't mean that AC/DC formed solely because they listened to Sabbath material, but that Sabbath opened the door and created a market amongst people who wanted to listen to a heavier, more riff laden style of rock. If I'm wrong in saying that, then I'm sorry.
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Old 08-27-2006, 03:03 PM   #43
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^Have you listened to AC/DC and Black Sabbath, they are nothing alike. Black Sabbath is a darker, grittier, lower band, while AC/DC is just a loud hard rock band. ...And I know people won't appreciate me talking about GNR in this forum, but Guns N' Roses are more towards metal than AC/DC, yet GNR are also just hard rock.
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Old 08-27-2006, 03:06 PM   #44
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Hmm, not heavy metal huh? So then why everytime people list the most famous heavy metal bands are ACDC always in there. Why for every album review on this site does it say Heavy Metal in the style category. Define your term of heavy metal so that I can understand why AC/DC isn't included.

Because they have no clue what they are talking about. AC/DC are hard rock. There is nothing metal about them. Wikipedia heavy metal or metal music and you'll understand.
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Old 08-27-2006, 03:57 PM   #45
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I just came after like 2years to the site of my hearth no net) and what my eyes see?

f,u.c.k.ing threads like this one. It should be banned.

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Old 08-27-2006, 07:45 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshelt76
Hmm, not heavy metal huh? So then why everytime people list the most famous heavy metal bands are ACDC always in there. Why for every album review on this site does it say Heavy Metal in the style category. Define your term of heavy metal so that I can understand why AC/DC isn't included.


Moving on to influences, just because a band doesn't list someone as their influence, doesn't mean that band didn't have any sort of influence on their music. It could be said that Chuck Berry influenced tons of future classic rock bands, but that doesn't mean that he was one of their influences. The same goes with Hendrix who is considered to be one of the most influential guitarists of all time, however, that doesn't mean that every single band who plays music that is similar to his or evolved from his influences is going to list him as an influence. When I said that Sabbath influenced them, I didn't mean that AC/DC formed solely because they listened to Sabbath material, but that Sabbath opened the door and created a market amongst people who wanted to listen to a heavier, more riff laden style of rock. If I'm wrong in saying that, then I'm sorry.



I would respond to that first thing, but I believe those two guys above me already got that.

As for the second part, yes, you are wrong in saying that. Just because Sabbath opened the door for the market for heavier, more riff laden rock doesn't mean AC/DC never would have existed without them. They didn't just form because Sabbath popularized that kind of music, they played in that style because that was just how they played.

Honestly, I can understand what you're trying to say. Black Sabbath had a huge influence on the hard rock and heavy metal genres; there's no denying that. But to say that "without Sabbath there never would have been an AC/DC..." is just ignorant.
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Old 08-27-2006, 07:55 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshelt76
Hmm, not heavy metal huh? So then why everytime people list the most famous heavy metal bands are ACDC always in there. Why for every album review on this site does it say Heavy Metal in the style category. Define your term of heavy metal so that I can understand why AC/DC isn't included.


Because those people have not listen to actual "heavy metal". There is nothing metal about Ac/Dc. Neither their music nor their appearence have depicted anything of or relating to Heavy Metal. Calling Ac/Dc heavy metal is like calling The Who Rap/R&B.
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Old 08-27-2006, 09:52 PM   #48
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Alright, I can see when I've been beaten and I stand corrected. I guess I've defined AC/DC as heavy metal because of how I've defined Heavy Metal. I've always defined metal as a subgenre of hard rock that usually involves powerful rock riffs, solos, a dark, gritty, sorrowful sound, and an image that matches that dark gritty sound(such as Ozzy's stage antics and calling himself the prince of darkness). This subgenre includes Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Megadeath and similar such bands. On the other hand, I've always considered Heavy Metal to be a subgenre of classic rock that resembles Metal(because of the hard powerful riffs and solos) but doesn't delve as much into the dark, gritty atmosphere of Metal. And therefore I've always classified bands such as Zeppelin, ACDC, Van Halen, Deep Purple and others like them into Heavy Metal/Classic Hard Rock because their music is still powerful and riff laden, but it has a "lighter" atmosphere to it, not a dark morose atmosphere.


However, I'm not going to back down from my claim that Black Sabbath opened the door for Heavy Metal or Hard Rock bands such as AC/DC and Van Halen to become popular and thrive. I will admit that if Sabbath hadn't come along, AC/DC probably would've become a big band anyway, but they owe at least a little bit of respect and honor to Sabbath for pioneering a new form of rock music and opening the door so that they could become the massively popular rock band that they became.
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Old 08-27-2006, 10:01 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshelt76
Alright, I can see when I've been beaten and I stand corrected....

*insert post body here*

.....This subgenre includes Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Megadeath and similar such bands




Sorry. It's rare that this type of event happens. What generally happens is the person refuses to accept general knowledge.

@ underlined part: Those bands are metal. Iron Maiden is part of a musical movement known as the New Wave of British Heavy Metal, Metallica and Megadeth are both Thrash Metal. So in that respect, you would be correct. Although this may sound vague and a little misguiding, Ac/Dc's sound is far too bluesy to be considered metal. But that is an underlying factor. There is more in-depth to take into account
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Old 08-27-2006, 10:31 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by kshelt76
However, I'm not going to back down from my claim that Black Sabbath opened the door for Heavy Metal or Hard Rock bands such as AC/DC and Van Halen to become popular and thrive. I will admit that if Sabbath hadn't come along, AC/DC probably would've become a big band anyway, but they owe at least a little bit of respect and honor to Sabbath for pioneering a new form of rock music and opening the door so that they could become the massively popular rock band that they became.


Oh, okay, I see what you meant now. True, Sabbath did open the door for the hard rock/heavy metal style to become popular. So you're right there. However, in your first post, you made it sound like every hard rock or metal band after Sabbath wouldn't have formed if not for them.

Well, now that this little argument has been (hopefully) dropped, why don't we get to actually discussing Black Sabbath a little bit? I guess we can start with something generic like...uh, what's your favorite Sabbath song? Of the ones I've heard so far (since I own only two of their albums), I like Electric Funeral, Iron Man, Jack The Stripper/Fairies Wear Boots, and Black Sabbath (btw, am I the only one somewhat annoyed that there's a song called Black Sabbath on an album called Black Sabbath by a band named Black Sabbath?)
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Old 08-27-2006, 10:42 PM   #51
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@ underlined part: Those bands are metal. Iron Maiden is part of a musical movement known as the New Wave of British Heavy Metal, Metallica and Megadeth are both Thrash Metal. So in that respect, you would be correct. Although this may sound vague and a little misguiding, Ac/Dc's sound is far too bluesy to be considered metal. But that is an underlying factor. There is more in-depth to take into account[/QUOTE]


I understand that AC/DC is not Metal. I've even had that argument(whether they're metal or not. Interestingly the arguments three main bands were Sabbath[what i called metal] and ACDC/Van Halen[what I was trying to call Heavy Metal) with someone I know, and at no point did I try to call AC/DC metal. Their sound is much different from anything I've ever considered metal. I was just saying that I've always called them Heavy Metal because their sound is similar to metal( the powerful riffs and solos and what not) but theyre not metal because unlike Sabbath, their music doesnt create a dark morose atmosphere. The blues background obviously plays a big role in this, as well as the subject matter of their songs(Sabbath could never pull off playing songs like It's a longway to the top, Can I sit next to you girl, Who Lotta Rosie because it would be so much different from their sound. Vice Versa, AC/DC, at least IMO, never had the dark sound that Sabbath did.) Basically, I've always heard, learned, and considered Heavy Metal to be hard rock music made in the classic rock period that isn't metal but has aspects in songwriting that are similar to it. I've then always considered Hard Rock the sort of music that is played today in bands like Audioslave.
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Old 08-27-2006, 10:50 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy193
Oh, okay, I see what you meant now. True, Sabbath did open the door for the hard rock/heavy metal style to become popular. So you're right there. However, in your first post, you made it sound like every hard rock or metal band after Sabbath wouldn't have formed if not for them.

Well, now that this little argument has been (hopefully) dropped, why don't we get to actually discussing Black Sabbath a little bit? I guess we can start with something generic like...uh, what's your favorite Sabbath song? Of the ones I've heard so far (since I own only two of their albums), I like Electric Funeral, Iron Man, Jack The Stripper/Fairies Wear Boots, and Black Sabbath (btw, am I the only one somewhat annoyed that there's a song called Black Sabbath on an album called Black Sabbath by a band named Black Sabbath?)


One last comment on the my ACDC argument, and then I'm done. If it appeared that I was trying to say Sabbath is solely responsible for starting ACDC then I'm sorry. I never meant that. I was simply trying to show the person who called them way overrated that they as pioneers of hard rock and metal, they deserve all the credit and accolades that they get.


On to the real purpose of this thread, although I don't really like much of Sabbath's music(not a big metal fan) I have to admit Iommi is an amazing guitarist. His riffs and solos are awesome. If he had been in a non metal band, I would probably be a huge fan of it.
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Old 08-27-2006, 11:09 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshelt76
I understand that AC/DC is not Metal. I've even had that argument(whether they're metal or not. Interestingly the arguments three main bands were Sabbath[what i called metal] and ACDC/Van Halen[what I was trying to call Heavy Metal) with someone I know, and at no point did I try to call AC/DC metal. Their sound is much different from anything I've ever considered metal. I was just saying that I've always called them Heavy Metal because their sound is similar to metal( the powerful riffs and solos and what not) but theyre not metal because unlike Sabbath, their music doesnt create a dark morose atmosphere. The blues background obviously plays a big role in this, as well as the subject matter of their songs(Sabbath could never pull off playing songs like It's a longway to the top, Can I sit next to you girl, Who Lotta Rosie because it would be so much different from their sound. Vice Versa, AC/DC, at least IMO, never had the dark sound that Sabbath did.) Basically, I've always heard, learned, and considered Heavy Metal to be hard rock music made in the classic rock period that isn't metal but has aspects in songwriting that are similar to it. I've then always considered Hard Rock the sort of music that is played today in bands like Audioslave.


So, if I can sum this up correctly, you were mislead because of your misunderstanding of what metal/heavy metal was. Correct?
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Old 08-27-2006, 11:18 PM   #54
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Old 10-05-2006, 02:50 PM   #55
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Hah, had no idea there was a thread already, my bad.

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Old 10-05-2006, 03:15 PM   #56
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There is a thread...in this very forum...with the same title as this one...three threads down. Use the search button or in this case, scroll down the page.

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Hah, had no idea there was a thread already, my bad.

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You started the old thread, not your bad.
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Old 10-05-2006, 03:44 PM   #57
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I don't know if that would make sense even if I didn't make that thread.
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Old 10-05-2006, 03:48 PM   #58
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What doesn't make sense?
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Old 10-05-2006, 03:52 PM   #59
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I came here hoping to see a dicussion of one of my favorate bands, just to find 3 pages of peopel argueeing about what genre they are in.....
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Old 10-05-2006, 03:59 PM   #60
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I came here hoping to see a dicussion of one of my favorate bands, just to find 3 pages of peopel argueeing about what genre they are in.....

Welcome to the forums.
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