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Old 12-26-2006, 01:10 PM   #61
sHieZaN
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yea i probably biased the e34l's wrong or something to make it sound like crap.

i think i also put the wrong tube in the phase inverter. for the PI should i put a tube with balanced triodes?
what about the rest of the preamp slots?
i think im going to try out tung-sols soon because i hear they sound liek mullards


oh
and is it ok to replace my el34's with kt77's in my marshall tsl?
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Old 12-26-2006, 04:30 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sHieZaN
yea i probably biased the e34l's wrong or something to make it sound like crap.

i think i also put the wrong tube in the phase inverter. for the PI should i put a tube with balanced triodes?
what about the rest of the preamp slots?
i think im going to try out tung-sols soon because i hear they sound liek mullards


oh
and is it ok to replace my el34's with kt77's in my marshall tsl?


The PI tube does not have to be balanced. A lot of people will argue this point, and if you want to get a balanced tube you can, but the circuit itself is not balanced and therefore the tube doesn't have to be. Balanced tubes were meant for hi-fi applications, certainly not the goal in guitar amps.

I would make sure the amp is biased properly, weak bass may mean the bias is too cold.
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Old 12-26-2006, 05:32 PM   #63
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Yucks, the "Merge" option looks really confusing. . .

I'll sticky this for now, until I find something else to do with it.
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Old 12-27-2006, 03:01 AM   #64
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is it ok to replace my Marshall JCM 900 tubes with Tungsol 12AX7 Tubes and EL34 power tubes?

How are the Svetlana EL34 Tubes?:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/prod...Tube?sku=212620

On the description, it says theyre good for Marshall amps. is that true? And when you go to the options, it says "hard", "Medium", and "soft". Are those the hardness of the tube? Please explain. And what do they mean by "quartlet" and "duet"?
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Old 12-27-2006, 03:33 AM   #65
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For a Marshall, I'd go with JJ EL34s and Tung-Sol AX7s. You can get JJs at eurotubes.com.

Hard/med/soft will be characteristics of the tube, with soft being a compressed sound and hard being more percussive. A quartet is 4 matched tubes, a duet is two.
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Old 12-27-2006, 03:45 AM   #66
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^^^which hardness will be more suited with 80's metal and thrash metal like metallica and some judas priest?
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Old 12-27-2006, 04:40 AM   #67
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The hard ones would be best for that.
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Old 12-27-2006, 04:53 AM   #68
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thanks, awsome thread btw
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Old 12-27-2006, 01:51 PM   #69
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im ordering my groove tubes on musiciansfriend, but what does itt mean by
(medium 7-10 GT rating)?
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Old 12-27-2006, 03:11 PM   #70
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that means that they are medium gain tubes. really you can bias any tubes hot or cold but tubes rated "medium" are tested to perform best when biased in the middle.
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Old 12-27-2006, 04:14 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc8995
The PI tube does not have to be balanced. A lot of people will argue this point, and if you want to get a balanced tube you can, but the circuit itself is not balanced and therefore the tube doesn't have to be. Balanced tubes were meant for hi-fi applications, certainly not the goal in guitar amps.

I would make sure the amp is biased properly, weak bass may mean the bias is too cold.

I don't understand how the circuit being unbalanced relates to not using a balanced phase inverter. That's the whole point of using matched power tubes, so the power circuit is as balanced as possible. The phase inverter splits the 2 halves of the sine wave into the positive and negative part of the wave. Each side of the wave then gets sent to the power tube pairs, where one set is responsible for the positive side, and one for the negative side of the signal. If it's not balanced, you get deformation in the wave where it can sound harsh, and can get inconsistencies in the sound where certain notes sustain, and others die off prematurely. If it matters in hi-fi, why wouldn't it matter in guitar amps? Those are the only 2 places where tubes are still the major component of the sound. Also, I still haven't seen any empirical evidence that JJ preamp tubes have a higher failure rate than other preamp tubes. Is this just from your own experience?
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Old 12-27-2006, 07:55 PM   #72
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do you guys have any experiences with the SED winged C el34s?
i heard theyre the original svetlanas and kick ass. what do you guys think of them? any other recommendations?
if the old teslas are really that great, i would pay for them too, but im still not sure yet.
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Old 12-27-2006, 08:48 PM   #73
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winged-c tubes are good, i just put some of their KT88s in my amp to replace the original stock GE tubes that have been in there forever, the GE tubes actually still tested pretty well but the winged Cs sounded better, so yeah they are very good tubes in general, havent tried their EL34s though.
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Old 12-27-2006, 10:26 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erock503
I don't understand how the circuit being unbalanced relates to not using a balanced phase inverter. That's the whole point of using matched power tubes, so the power circuit is as balanced as possible. The phase inverter splits the 2 halves of the sine wave into the positive and negative part of the wave. Each side of the wave then gets sent to the power tube pairs, where one set is responsible for the positive side, and one for the negative side of the signal. If it's not balanced, you get deformation in the wave where it can sound harsh, and can get inconsistencies in the sound where certain notes sustain, and others die off prematurely. If it matters in hi-fi, why wouldn't it matter in guitar amps? Those are the only 2 places where tubes are still the major component of the sound. Also, I still haven't seen any empirical evidence that JJ preamp tubes have a higher failure rate than other preamp tubes. Is this just from your own experience?


If by "balanced" you mean that each triode in the PI is equal, yes, closer is probably better. I don't think that the different triodes in a 12a*7 type tube have that much variation though, at least far less than the power tubes. And on top of that, they're cathode biased which means that you don't have the issue really of one being biased too hot and one too cold. Now there are some tubes where one triode has a totally different gain than the other, and I wouldn't sub in one of these. But in general I don't think there's enough variation between different triodes in one tube to warrant matching them closely. On top of that, most guitar amps run mostly in class A until you really start to push them. And since a guitar signal isn't really a pure sine wave anyways, some distortion doesn't really throw it off much. Tube amps are also often associated with asymmetrical clipping, which means that the positive and negative sides of the wave are clipped differently. For example the Keeley DS-1 mod is a popular example of "mimicking" (to the extent possible) tube amp distortion by making the clipping asymmetrical. Power tubes are mostly matched to prevent crossover distortion, which is a different matter. It sounds gross.

Sorry for the long rambly structure.
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Old 12-27-2006, 10:50 PM   #75
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yeah, I meant balanced as in each triode of the pi being equal. So it's really not an issue than to use a tube with balanced triodes Pink? Every tube guy I've talked to said you want that, but I guess they are selling them for extra money that way too. It makes sense though what you are saying, but the only time I'm really finicky about the sound is when I'm pushing them hard. That's the best part of having a tube amp for me, so I would imagine I'm well into class A/B most of the time. I use a multi for low vol practice.

And yeah, I've heard crossover distortion, it is eww. I'm not clear on the matching to prevent crossover distortion though. As in, the tubes all having simliar values so none are running too cold compared the rest, or is there another reason? Thanks Pink.
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Old 12-28-2006, 01:04 AM   #76
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Every time I mention that a balanced tube isn't necessary I get the same response, which is basically 'But that's what they told me!,' containing no evidence at all. The point is that Pink is correct- the tubes are cathode biased and there's just not much variation. When I say that the circuit itself isn't balanced I mean that onthe original Fenders for example, the plate resistors were two completely different values- 82k and 100k. This is true of most amps, which means that the tube doesn't need to be balanced because the circuit it's in is not.
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Old 12-28-2006, 01:05 AM   #77
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The thing is that there isn't that much variation in preamp tube triodes within each tube. Sure, it could be closer, but it's generally close enough. Poweramp tubes nowadays have much more variation, and so they're sold in matched pairs. Crossover distortion is when a little notch of sorts occurs when the wave passes from negative to positive or vice versa. If the biasing of the power tubes doesn't allow the signal to be cleanly amplified (the tube starts to cut out in the wrong spot) you get that ugly distortion.
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Old 12-28-2006, 04:14 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc8995
Every time I mention that a balanced tube isn't necessary I get the same response, which is basically 'But that's what they told me!,' containing no evidence at all. The point is that Pink is correct- the tubes are cathode biased and there's just not much variation. When I say that the circuit itself isn't balanced I mean that onthe original Fenders for example, the plate resistors were two completely different values- 82k and 100k. This is true of most amps, which means that the tube doesn't need to be balanced because the circuit it's in is not.

lol, ok, I concede, you have established it's not absolutely necessary, since there shouldn't be that much variation to begin with. However, ideally the closer the better, so I still think it's worth the extra $2-3 for the "one" tube to have it as close as possible. Maybe if it were a significant difference in price I would think otherwise.
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Old 12-28-2006, 04:54 PM   #79
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However, ideally the closer the better,


That's the problem. As long as the triodes aren't wildly mismatched (something I have never come across), it doesn't matter at all. Not a bit. Not 'ideally,' not anything. Matched sections are for stereos and people who don't know better.
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Old 12-28-2006, 05:23 PM   #80
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hey uh i have a question (i dont know whether i should be asking here so ill post it also as a new thread)

i just got a marshall jcm 900 50 WATT head yesterday and im really happy with it but i noticed that i want a lot more gain than it gives me (dont get me wrong, i love the crunch sounding distortion and everything about it, i just want to be able to have more gain)

im thinking that maybe the guy who had it last (the amp is used of course) put in tubes that werent really meant for any real high gain/hard rock/metal stuff, and since im into that type of music (kinda GNR high gain crunch sounding really) i was thinking about replacing the old tubes with new ones to fit my style

now yes i have thought about getting an overdrive or distortion pedal to boost up my gain but i have decided not to (dont try to convince me)

now im looking for tubes that are very agressive and can give me a high gain crunch much like guns n roses appetite for destruction type sound

please helpp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (and if ur really nice, please give me all the matching tubes so i dont get confused)
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