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Old 08-07-2014, 03:25 PM   #1
Tcrumpen
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The age old question ....

What contributes the most the overall tone you get from your rig, i know that everything plays a part (guitar, amp, pick and playstyle), but i'm wondering if there is one that outweighs the other, i personally have noticed that is doesn't really matter how i play (hard strike or average strums) i still get the same sound through the same amp ...
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Old 08-07-2014, 03:26 PM   #2
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You need a new amp or you need to rethink your settings.
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Old 08-07-2014, 03:28 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemurflames
You need a new amp or you need to rethink your settings.

I was thinking that, my current amp is a Roland Cube 20XL, possibly upgrading to a Blackstar ID:30 in a couple of months
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Old 08-07-2014, 03:48 PM   #4
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You do. That's not to say those other things don't play a part, because of course they do, but the primary tone generator begins at the person playing the instrument. I will note that the better the gear, the MORE a good player is able to do with it.

It's my opinion that one's gear should always be at least slightly better than the capabilities of the player, so you're able to learn and grow.

From your description, your amp is lacking and it's time to upgrade, but you wouldn't have likely known/heard that when you first started.
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Old 08-07-2014, 05:09 PM   #5
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what do you play and what are you trying to achieve?
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Old 08-07-2014, 05:12 PM   #6
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I've found that, gear-wise, it's mostly the amp that influences the sound the strongest. You can get a good sound even out of a crappy guitar if you have a good amp. That said, the quality difference can definately be heard if you upgrade your guitar. So... I wouldn't recommend to prefer one over the other, however if your budget is tight, go for a better (or different) amp.
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Old 08-07-2014, 06:08 PM   #7
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the fingers. the fingers def contribute the most. it's at least, like, 60% fingers.
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Old 08-07-2014, 06:24 PM   #8
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It's very hard to say, because it depends on exactly what you're comparing (most would say "amp", but if you compare a telecaster versus a les paul through the same amp, and then the same guitar through a blackface and silverface twin, the guitar makes more difference in that case), plus different things affect the sound in different ways (even if the amp affects things more, if you want to sound like a tele, you need a tele, and a tele sort of always sounds like a tele).

but yeah if you have a starter pack amp the amp is probably the problem.

EDIT: how you play makes the biggest difference, obviously. I always separate it out into gear tone and finger tone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby911
(a) I will note that the better the gear, the MORE a good player is able to do with it.

(b) It's my opinion that one's gear should always be at least slightly better than the capabilities of the player, so you're able to learn and grow.

(c) From your description, your amp is lacking and it's time to upgrade, but you wouldn't have likely known/heard that when you first started.


(a) I always wonder about this one- to me it's almost a paradox. I agree with you, but at the same time better players can normally compensate more for worse gear, as well.



(b) agreed, that's a good way to put it

(c) yeah the amp is very much ignored by a lot of people (even those giving advice a lot of the time)- "you just need a cheap practice amp, you're only learning"

some of those cheap practice amps would put anyone sane off learning...
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Old 08-07-2014, 06:43 PM   #9
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This isn't a real question. Could you ask this question in another context and have it make sense?

When you make a pizza, does the crust matter the most? Or the cheese? Or the toppings?
That question doesn't make any sense. If the crust is super shitty, or if the cheese is moldy, or if you're allergic to sardines - all of those things matter, and none of them can be captured in a question as simple as "what matters most to a pizza?" You can make vague generalizations ("I care more about the sauce than whether or not it has onions") and preferences ("to me it is important that pizza have a crispy crust") but to try to boil down a pizza or a guitar rig or a book or movie or whatever to "what matters most" is just far too vague to be useful. Even if you can come up with an answer ("the most important thing for pizza is fresh Mozzarella and Basil"), that information is only useful to you, and you've discovered what the word "subjective" means.

That's why we have a forum. We interact, ask questions, get information, try to help people use as much information as possible to make a good decision. This question is the opposite of that - it removes a lot of relevant information, so it's not possible or useful to answer.
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Old 08-07-2014, 06:47 PM   #10
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I've seen thousands of car analogies.

This is the first pizza analogy I've seen and I am not upset.
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Old 08-07-2014, 08:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc8995
When you make a pizza, does the crust matter the most? Or the cheese? Or the toppings?


that is why i said fingers. you can't even pick the pizza up to eat it without the fingers. at least 53.5%.

i am seriously surprised you posted on this thread and didn't shut it down.
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:11 PM   #12
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Trying some new things with threads now that our traffic is a lot slower than it used to be.

And fingers are like, 14% of the stuff you need for lifting, tops.
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:14 PM   #13
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Shit now I'm hungry for pizza. Thanks a lot Colin!
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:38 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gumbilicious
the fingers. the fingers def contribute the most. it's at least, like, 60% fingers.


Then we should all go to a finger forum instead of a gear forum.
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:40 PM   #15
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeMonk
Then we should all go to a finger forum instead of a gear forum.



Sounds hot.
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Old 08-08-2014, 07:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc8995
This isn't a real question. Could you ask this question in another context and have it make sense?


Q: I want to go really fast in my race car, which is the most important, power,weight or drag
?

A: While all 3 matter, power is the most important because it can most easily compensate for problems with the othesr. Also there are limits on how much you can reduce weight and drag but almost no limit to how much power you can bolt on.


I'm just sayin...
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Last edited by Arby911 : 08-08-2014 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 08-08-2014, 09:39 AM   #18
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Is that why all the record lap times are held by souped-up tractor trailers?
What kind of "fast" are we talking about? Drag race? Nurburgring?
Where does the power come from? Does your answer only work if you have theoretical infinite power?
Ask an engineer sometime if they'd rather have zero weight or infinite power when designing a vehicle. I wish I could find my textbook now that had this exact question in it. Its answer was that zero weight was far, far more desirable. Think about it from a physics standpoint: F=MA. Zero mass gives you the same benefits of infinite power, but now you don't have to engineer a driveshaft that can withstand an infinite amount of torque (which I imagine would be hard )

This is exactly why such questions are hopeless. Even if you get the "right" answer (and I do not think there is one) you have to make far too many simplifying assumptions. The phrase "most important" implies "at the expense of other things" but it doesn't specify to what degree. Therefore there's no way to define "most important" in a field of several variables, if more than two of them have any importance at all.
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Old 08-08-2014, 09:57 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby911
Q: I want to go really fast in my race car, which is the most important, power,weight or drag
?

A: While all 3 matter, power is the most important because it can most easily compensate for problems with the othesr. Also there are limits on how much you can reduce weight and drag but almost no limit to how much power you can bolt on.


I'm just sayin...


No first you cant just "bolt on" infinite power. Second all the HP in the world is useless unless you getting traction. If your spinning tires down the track your not going very fast and third weight is very important thats why you dont see 18 wheelers taking off from stop lights. Im a mechanic and the same goes for cars as pizzas there are a lot of factors to making a car fast.
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Old 08-08-2014, 11:59 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc8995
This is exactly why such questions are hopeless. Even if you get the "right" answer (and I do not think there is one) you have to make far too many simplifying assumptions. The phrase "most important" implies "at the expense of other things" but it doesn't specify to what degree. Therefore there's no way to define "most important" in a field of several variables, if more than two of them have any importance at all.


We make simplifying assumptions here every day in the interests of convenience though. (The "wattage isn't volume, it's headroom" trope, which is incorrect but serves the purpose of explanation for most folks as an example.

I understand your objections but I don't think the question is without value, as it can lead to an explanation of said variables and how they affect the situation, giving the seeker a knowledge base from which to form opinions. I also know that doesn't always happen here (or elsewhere), but that doesn't diminish the potential.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cav22s
No first you cant just "bolt on" infinite power. Second all the HP in the world is useless unless you getting traction. If your spinning tires down the track your not going very fast and third weight is very important thats why you dont see 18 wheelers taking off from stop lights. Im a mechanic and the same goes for cars as pizzas there are a lot of factors to making a car fast.


I raced for many years, both circle track and dragstrip, I'm aware of the factors involved. I didn't say weight and drag didn't matter, I said that beyond a certain limit it's easier to increase power than to reduce weight or drag.

Take a SBC as an example, the World Products Aluminum Smallblock weighs about 435 pounds. In reasonable street performance form it will make 400hp or so. If I go with a billet crank, forged rods and pistons, a high compression ratio, roller cam and push about 20# of boost through it with the right fuel I can make north of 1,000 hp (at least for a while...).

It still weighs around 435 pounds, I CAN'T make it any lighter.

Drag is similar for most vehicles. There's a rational lower limit.

Sure the analogy is flawed, but it's not irrational to consider it.


And all of this is probably way too much skull sweat for what was initially intended as a tongue-in-cheek "challenge accepted" comment anyway, hence the smiley at the end.

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