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Old 02-06-2007, 12:37 AM   #41
IndianRockStar
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Nice stuff, I knew most of it though. But as for modes this is how I think it is:

Ionian + Lydian: Major
Mixolydian: Dominant
Aeolian, Dorian, Phrygian: Minor
Locrian: Diminished

And actually I think the application of these is as important as knowing the scales. More on the application would be nice. And I think some more explanation on the blues scale would go a long way
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Old 02-06-2007, 01:23 AM   #42
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I am not the best at explaining theory, but I'll give the blues scale a go here. Applehead or Johnljones can jump in here and let me know if I go astray..

The Blues scale, like Applehead said is based on the pentatonic minor, but has 6 notes instead of five. The formula is:

1 - b3 - 4 - b5 - 5 - b7

The note that is added is the diminshed 5th, measured from the scale tonic.

What I learned originally back in music theory that the b3, b5 and b7 are called the Blue notes of the scale, though I have heard people refer to just the b5 as the "blue note" as well.

For example a blues scale in A, the notes would be A - C - D - Eb - E - G - A.

The blues scale is widely used in Jazz, Rock and of course Blues. Its a good scale to learn to improvise in and lends itself to a variety of improv techniques, including call and response, and walking bass lines.


And this is turning into quite a solid lesson, good job Applehead. I learned all this back in music theory in college and its been a great refresher course.
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Old 02-06-2007, 06:36 AM   #43
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I think there is dispute on whether the Blues scale is actually a scale, or whether the one note added is just one note that has been added. I think originally, players used to bend the 4th to get to it, and then it became a scale of it's own, but i am not sure. Either way, i think it has come into common usage and thus can be considered a scale in it's own right. I still find myself bending to the "blues note" though, as i think it sounds cooler and gives it a more Bluesy feel
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Old 02-06-2007, 01:18 PM   #44
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Ok, I went back and dusted off a few books on this topic. In blues, the 2nd and the b5 (or aug 4th) are usually bent to approximate pitch, like Applehead describes above. Vocally this is easy to sing, and instrumentally, string instruments can bend the sting and wind instruments esp. horns will "lip" to bend the note.

The blue scale is a good solid tool for developing bass lines, since all the notes in the scale sound on key when played against other instruments. There are no bad notes, just some progressions that sound "better" than others.
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Old 02-06-2007, 03:50 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Johnljones7443
One more thing.. you said ''NOTICE HOW THERE IS NO E# OR B#'' - which is incorrect (and is related to what I was saying about function) as both of those notes do exist so I'd probably put a note in there saying 'Note: These notes do exist, but are only written when the function of the note requires them in the case of the major seventh of C# being B# and not C, or the major third of C# being E# and not F for example' or something similar to that.



Should double sharps and double flats be mentioned too?
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Old 02-06-2007, 04:40 PM   #46
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This is what I've been looking for. Thanks for posting! =]
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Old 02-06-2007, 05:24 PM   #47
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they denied my exercise........so if you want a wicked bass exercise of the modes email me or PM me its a GTpro5
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Old 02-06-2007, 08:02 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarkee
There are no bad notes, just some progressions that sound "better" than others.


I will have to dispute that fact oftimes the #4 (or aug4 or 5b you nitpickers ) sounds incredibly dissonant, it is used much more wisely as a passing tone.

Wow this lesson is really good I must admit modes are a little above me in my mind anyway. I find I can't learn this over an article or a lesson like this I need a real person talking but still great job.
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Old 02-06-2007, 08:55 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnljones7443
.. the most common place to see an augmented 2nd interval is the _7#9 chord. Made up like.. 1 - 3 - 5 - b7 - #9..

You could just call it a C#9 couldn't you? Because if something is C9 for example it's assumed to have the dominant 7th.

Also locrian is the HALF diminished scale.
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Old 02-06-2007, 09:08 PM   #50
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I thought you HAD to have the b7th to support the 9th? so yeah i guess you are right
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Old 02-06-2007, 09:13 PM   #51
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As my old teacher said, anything over 7 must include a 7. If you just right C11 or whatever then it's assumed to be a dominant 7. If you're not going to include the 7th then you put ADD 11 or yeah.

Also modes don't have to be played over those chords, in fact I regularly use them to make grroves for a song in that key or something of the like. Like I use a certain mode when I feel it's appropriate or is what I'm going for.
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Old 02-06-2007, 10:53 PM   #52
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Why is the 2nd not considered perfect, like the 4th, 5th, and octave? arent they the same note in major and minor, or am i missing soming?
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Old 02-06-2007, 11:01 PM   #53
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And am i right in thinking that each mode follows the same patern but just starting at a different note? wwhwwwh e.g. d e f g a b c d being the dorian mode
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Old 02-07-2007, 12:55 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musiclover2399
You could just call it a C#9 couldn't you? Because if something is C9 for example it's assumed to have the dominant 7th.

Also locrian is the HALF diminished scale.


No, C#9 would imply a C# dominant 9th chord. If you had the notes C - E - G - Bb - D# you must call it C7#9. Saying C#9 implies C# - E# - G# - B - D#.
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Old 02-07-2007, 07:56 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Applehead
Fsba, where are you at with theory stuff?

Way to change my intire acronym! Anywho, I've started learning modes. But I already know all the keys, and what not. Learned that 3yrs ago. And I know what #7ths b3's and all that. It's just a matter of memorizing modes. I've got the Major, Minor, Chromatic, and the harmonic Minor. I can't play them very fast, still have to think to play them, but it's all good.
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Old 02-10-2007, 10:19 AM   #56
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IMO, you should have mentioned how all of the modes connect to the major scale, not just how to form them. For example, C Ionian and D Dorian are both in the same key, as is E Phrygian, B Locrian, and A Aeolian (the relative minor, which you also didn't mention).
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Old 02-10-2007, 11:43 AM   #57
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im gonna read this as soon as my school work is done...i shouldnt be on here right now so yaknow, looks a reallly good and useful lesson apple
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Old 02-10-2007, 02:43 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scourge441
IMO, you should have mentioned how all of the modes connect to the major scale, not just how to form them. For example, C Ionian and D Dorian are both in the same key, as is E Phrygian, B Locrian, and A Aeolian (the relative minor, which you also didn't mention).

Well though the modes use the same key signatures at the beginning of musical staff and the chords in a certain key can be derived from another, they're not exactly the same. I'm willing to explain further if I get to handle next monthes lesson.

Also yeah I was wrong about the C#9 thing Luckily I was corrected.
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Old 02-10-2007, 03:10 PM   #59
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^ Feel free bro! It would be nice to follow on further, as this is really only a basic lesson to people introduced to theory and scales.. i tried not to get too complicated
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Old 02-10-2007, 03:31 PM   #60
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Yeah I'm thinking a scales lesson part two/continued and then a link to this one of course.
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