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Old 07-31-2007, 03:08 AM   #81
[ktulu]
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what would be the better choice a pa system for a gt8 or a epi valve junior?will use this for bedroom practice and maybe band practice once i get there.what are some good cheap pa's?
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Old 07-31-2007, 07:30 AM   #82
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Complexity doesn't bother me really, i just want the one that sounds the best
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Old 07-31-2007, 08:55 AM   #83
TwoString
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Originally Posted by [ktulu]
what would be the better choice a pa system for a gt8 or a epi valve junior?will use this for bedroom practice and maybe band practice once i get there.what are some good cheap pa's?


Best portable PA solution is easily a keyboard amp. A small Alesis Sumo, Roland KC or Behringer keyboard amp should be easy to come by, and offer the full-range response you'd expect from a PA system.
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Old 07-31-2007, 10:05 AM   #84
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Double post - apologies.

I was helping one of the guys over at the Boogie forums and figured I'd post the same info here to help you guys out. This information applies to any amp really. If you have a specific issue with your amp and cannot solve it with this walkthrough, let me know.

This is exactly what I went through to set up the unit with the Roadster.

Starting with a comletely blank patch on the GT-8 (NOTHING on, not even the noise suppressor), check your input levels on the GT-8 alone. You don't have to have any other cable connected to the unit other than your guitar for this. Check your levels with palm-muted E major chords...those usually register the loudest. Move through every stage of your level meter to make sure you're not getting any spikes along the way. The meter should never spike above 70%.

Now, start turning on your effects ONE AT A TIME TESTING ONLY ONE EFFECT AT A TIME. This is where you'll be able to find out the gain factors of each effect. For example, the Chorus effect has a rather high gain factor and in stock trim typically pegs out the meter of the block following the chorus. Go through each of your levels and meters to ensure that you've got unity gain throughout each effect block. Take note that you'll also want to organize your effects chain in the unit in the order you normally operate in, as each effect is cumulative (effect 1 in the chain will always be affected by effects 2, 3 and 4, and effect 4 will always depend on the levels it receives from effects 1, 2 and 3). This takes some time and it is not a simple 5 minute exercise. The time you take now will pay off, trust me.

After your levels are set and you've got as close to unity gain as possible across the board on the GT-8, you can now connect the unit to your amp. This is the method I recommend.

Starting with the Roadster, set your power levels and rectifier tracking the way you want. Remember to set turn the effects loop on. On the Roadster footswitch, move to channel 1, turn the effects loop on. The solo and reverb should be turned off. Set your voice switches (clean, fat, tweed, etc) for all channels and set your basic levels (the master output on the Roadster should be set at a reasonable level...it will have no effect on the level matching tests to follow).

Connect your guitar directly into the input of the amp and connect the GT-8 in the effects loop. DO NOT CONNECT THE EFFECTS SEND ON THE ROADSTER TO THE INPUT OF THE GT-8. You're not going to be running it that way anyway. Connect the effects send from the Roadster to the effects return on the GT-8 and connect the output (left channel) on the GT-8 to the effects return on the Roadster. Now, place the FX LOOP on the GT-8 where you want it in the effects chain (after any pre amps and overdrive/distortion effects, but before any delay, chorus or modulation effects). KEEP IN MIND THAT DURING THIS SETUP PROCESS ALL EFFECTS SHOULD STILL BE TURNED OFF ON THE UNIT.

You will now calibrate your levels (WARNING, YOU WILL BE ASKED TO TURN SOME KNOBS ON THE AMP). Move to the back of the Roadster and set the effects loop level to 50%. Again, with all effects TURNED OFF on the GT-8, turn on your meter and scroll all the way to the first effect block that falls after your effects return on the GT-8. Again, palm muted E major chords do the trick. Check your levels. Your levels should match...again, no more than 70% on the meter, but what you should really be shooting for is an exact match to what you saw on the meter when you connected directly to the input on the GT-8. Adjust your levels AT THE AMP to compensate (I'm sure you know this, but the level control on each channel controls the signal level at the effects send...the effects send level is a secondary control that controls global output at the effects send). Turn up the channel's level control if your meter shows a low reading and down if it shows a higher reading. DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THE VOLUME YOU ACTUALLY HEAR RIGHT NOW...you will deal with this later. If you are unhappy with the tone, that will come later as well. Right now we're just balancing levels.

Move through each channel and do the same thing as above.

Now the test...does your overall level match when you bypass the GT-8? Again, playing a simple chord, use the Effects Loop bypass switch on the Roadster foot controller. Play a chord and bypass the effects loop. Did you notice a difference in level? If the overall volume from the amp is lower when the effects loop is engaged, compensate by turning up the level control ON THE BACK OF THE GT-8. Do not adjust any volume levels in the effects block, just use the level control on the rear of the GT-8. Continue to adjust until your loop-engaged level matches your loop-bypassed level. Once you've got this, the rest is cake.

Re-test your levels by turning on effects ONE AT A TIME INDIVIDUALLY and checking your levels again with the meters. At this point, no matter what amp channel or effect you use, you should hear no difference in the volume coming from the speakers (you will hear a perceived volume difference with the higher gain channels, but the actual level the GT-8 reads will be the same). If everything still matches up, we can now move on to the preamp section.

You will now connect the GT-8 to the Roadster via 4 cable method.

Again, with all of your effects turned off on the GT-8, check your meter reading. Your levels should remain the same throughout each effect block. If you notice a huge change between your preamp effects and effects loop effects levels, go back through the effects loop level set up because you missed something somewhere.

Now, start going through your preamp effects turning on one at a time individually. What you should be aiming for, especially with any overdrive/distortion effects, is a gain boost, not a level boost. I know that typically, gain=volume increase, but that's not what we're aiming for here. Set your gain and level settings on the effects. Again, you should not get any level increase. With overdrive effects, you're looking for a perceived gain increase with no level change. Check your meters to make sure you're not changing any levels. The majority of this process is simply repeating what you did in the effects loop setup process. If you have any specific questions, let me know.

If you want a volume increase for solos or louder sections, use the solo feature on the amp. You should not use the GT-8 for any level increase as this will upset your gain balance in the unit. Now that all of your levels are set and balanced between the GT-8 and Roadster, you can start shaping your tones with the EQ on the Roadster. After your EQ is set, check your levels once again to make sure you did not upset your level balance. If you did, simply adjust using the level control on the amp channel that's affected. Your overall volume should now be controlled with the MASTER VOLUME ON THE AMP. Do not adjust any levels in the GT-8 or the effects send/channel level controls on the Roadster. Doing so will upset your level balance.

You should now have a nice INIT patch to base all of your Roadster patches on. Keep a blank, unchanged copy of this patch on bank 1 (copy it to all 4 patches just so you know you will have a backup - name the patch INIT-ROADSTER). I copied this same INIT patch and saved it to banks 1-20 on my unit. This way you've got a blank patch everywhere just in case. Now program your patches based on the effects you want. I typically operated in just one patch using the unit in manual mode, turning on and off effects as needed with the foot switches on the unit, but you can set up patches as needed with various effects combinations. If you really want to get fancy, pick up a GCX switcher and use the GT-8 to control it via MIDI for some real flexibility.

Troubleshooting

You will probably get a lot of noise just with the cable runs alone. Amplifying this noise with further gain from the GT-8 is a bad idea. Keep your levels low in the unit and compensate with the volume on the rear of the GT-8.

Ground Loops. You're going to have them. If the noise suppressor on the GT-8 can't handle it, or if you're getting some tone loss with the suppressor, cut some of the grounds in your cables. You will need to label the cables if you do this to make sure you reconnect them correctly. Here's the run down.

Guitar to GT-8 - ground should remain intact on both plugs

GT-8 to Roadster input - ground should remain intact on both plugs

Roadster effects send to GT-8 effects return - cut the ground on the GT-8 side

GT-8 output to Roadster effects return - cut the ground on the GT-8 side

Inductance noise. Keep the GT-8 power transformer as far away from the GT8 and your signal lines as possible. The transformer in this thing is a huge source of noise. Try to keep the power cable away from your signal cables as much as possible as well.

Tracking problems. If you have an effect in the GT-8 that starts freaking out (typically this happens on any pitch shifting or harmony effects), move that effect to the front of your signal chain before any other effects (IE, if you're using the pedal bend effect, you will need to move FX2 to the front of your signal chain within the GT-8). This should fix the problem. If it does not, try putting a mild compressor in the effects chain before FX2...this should make the effect track a little better.

This should do it. I'll continue to search for the sysx whenever I get my archive drive back in my PC. Hell, at this point I'm almost willing to take advantage of Guitar Center's return policy to get a unit home and set up the patch for you. I know this is a lot of reading, and hopefully it all made sense, but if you have any questions, let me know.
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Old 07-31-2007, 04:29 PM   #85
nonamemark
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ok the effects chain is going guitar, fx1, cs, wah, lp, od, preamp, eq, ns, fv, fx2, dd, ce, rv, gdt, amp
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Old 07-31-2007, 04:38 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nonamemark
ok the effects chain is going guitar, fx1, cs, wah, lp, od, preamp, eq, ns, fv, fx2, dd, ce, rv, gdt, amp


Okay...what effect do you have running in FX1 and do you have anything in the loop?
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Old 07-31-2007, 04:50 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babylou
hey i'm really tempted 2 get one of these, i was going 2 get a tonelab le, but this is starting to sound better. i have a fender showmaster, and a spider III 75 and i go for the frusciante or hendrix styles of music, which 1 should i go for?? cheers!



And the clean Fruciante-strato-like stuff are fairly simple to achieve...IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. Although i dont like copying sounds of other guitar players, many times i 've come through tones i have definetly heard from such players such as Vaughn, and Fruciante.
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:34 AM   #88
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im at work now but im fairly sure nothing is on fx1 and do you mean the effects loop? no nothing there either
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Old 08-01-2007, 12:50 PM   #89
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Well, the only thing I can think of there is that you've got too much gain in the od/preamp section. Shoot for unity gain and steady level throughout the unit as I described above.
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:37 PM   #90
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ive read the thing about setting the levels on the boss forum but i cant make sence out of it, how do i make my output match my input, i.e. if i get the level bar maxing out at say 2/3 of the way, what do i set my output to and what about the input value, what do i set to? sorry if these are stupid questions!
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:41 PM   #91
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You're not changing the global input and output levels, you're going to have to change the level in each effects block.
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:57 PM   #92
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but wouldnt it be better to set the global levels first?
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Old 08-01-2007, 06:20 PM   #93
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Your global levels are not going to prevent overloading between effects blocks.
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Old 08-01-2007, 06:21 PM   #94
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Greetings-
Just a quick shout out to all of you GT8 users(or soon to be, riding the fence...)

I am still experimenting with the 4cm tutorial French Fries (at GTCentral) authored, and I have got to tell you all, the GT8 is really impressing me with the Roadster... For some background, I have been using a GT8 for 2 years, and a GT6 for 3 prior to the release of the GT8. I ran GT8 into a Mesa 20/20 pushing a Genz Benz GFlex 212. Earlier this year, I added a HC to the Loop of the GT8 (a real necessity if you plan on using GT8 Amp Sims). I recently hooked up *my* dream amp, a Mesa Roadster Head. I thought the 8 was done for, thinking "now I have to go analog", and I began researching other effects. Then I began borrowing stomps from friends. Then I went ahead and hooked up the 8 via 4CM (four cable method)
Here are some pedals I have to A/B with the 8 via 4CM:

Boss Blues Driver
TS9
Crybaby 535Q
Line6 DL4
DD3
DD6
CS3
Fish and Chips EQ
Tuna Melt Tremelo
TU2
NS2

With the exception of the Wah, the GT8/Roadster via 4CM produces less noise, is far easier to set up and navigate, 1000X more flexible, and to my ears, *sounds better* than combinations of these pedals (the 8 wahs are 100% usable, I just got a nice vibe from the crybaby).
Not to mention *looks* cleaner, and doesn't take up as much real estate on the floor.
I was getting discouraged with the OD/DIS section before the roadster preamp, then I started to experiment dialing in some direct signal in the OD sim- next thing you know, I add a little Gain to the lead channel without adding too much level, and it retains all of the tube dynamics.
The GT8 is a beast. Pair it up with a nice tube amp with a serial effects loop, a MONSTER. The GT8 effects are as good as, or, BETTER, than many of the stomps I A/Bed. Especially the delays.
I have used a POD, PODXTLive, Tonelab, and some of the Digitech multis. NONE of them can interface in the same capacity as the GT8. Yes, they have their strengths- but the 8, IMHO, is vastly superior in programability and versatility.
I have NO IDEA how much money it would cost to build a rack that can accomplish what the GT8 is accomplishing for my rig- but I guarrantee you it wouldnt be in the same $$$ value that the 8 is.
I am still experimenting with my new rig, but I think it is safe to say that the GT8 will be a big part of it....
Laskyman
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Old 08-02-2007, 02:36 AM   #95
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Your global levels are not going to prevent overloading between effects blocks.


ok, thanks but the only effect i have on anyway is distortion and the noise gate
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Old 08-02-2007, 07:12 AM   #96
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You don't have the preamp sim block turned on?
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Old 08-02-2007, 10:28 AM   #97
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no when i turn it on it makes a load of noise, thats what i asked orignaly
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:28 AM   #98
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Thumbs up

Hey Two String (or anyone who might know), the GT-8 has a midi output right? so does that mean i could use it as an midi instrument for programs such as sibelius? thanks man
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:37 AM   #99
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Try it the other way around...set up your preamp sim properly with the overdrive/distortion off, then try to add the overdrive effect to it.
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:42 AM   #100
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any1 know??
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