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Old 09-27-2014, 02:51 AM   #1
DeathmoniC
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high e needs to be really tight to be in tune!

My high e needs to be very loose to be tuned to e or very tight (kinda not possible)
It gives 260 hz in a state that i think it's the normal one not so loose not so tight just like the other strings
Since this has been bothering me for a while should i look for a tuning that's the fist string gives whatever letter mine is giving now (other strings fine in tune ) or what ?
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Old 09-27-2014, 03:47 AM   #2
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It is impossible for a string to be in tune and at any other tension that what it is at while in tune. If it's too tense, you're using too heavy of a string. 260 hz is right about a C. If you can't get that up to an E without the string feeling too tense to play, you need a lighter string. Either that or the guitar needs a setup.
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Old 09-27-2014, 03:58 AM   #3
DeathmoniC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bi99man
It is impossible for a string to be in tune and at any other tension that what it is at while in tune. If it's too tense, you're using too heavy of a string. 260 hz is right about a C. If you can't get that up to an E without the string feeling too tense to play, you need a lighter string. Either that or the guitar needs a setup.

Since im using 0.9 mm what kind of a setup , i do think intonation would cause that much of a problem so it's not intonation , so what ?
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Old 09-27-2014, 04:03 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathmoniC
Since im using 0.9 mm what kind of a setup , i do think intonation would cause that much of a problem so it's not intonation , so what ?

How do you know it's not intonation? Is the guitar saddle really far back on that string? If so, it's intonation.

Also, it's worth noting intonation is part of setup.
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:21 PM   #5
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0.9mm? Do you mean your low E (thick string) or are you saying 9 gauge?

A 0.9mm is a typical A string thickness. I'm confused, and may just be too tired..
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:28 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D_M_I
0.9mm? Do you mean your low E (thick string) or are you saying 9 gauge?

A 0.9mm is a typical A string thickness. I'm confused, and may just be too tired..


I'm assuming he meant .009, which yeah, is 9 gauge, which should be just fine as a high E on just about any guitar. And that is why, again OP, you just need to get the guitar set up.
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:31 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathmoniC
Since im using 0.9 mm what kind of a setup , i do think intonation would cause that much of a problem so it's not intonation , so what ?


There are tons of things that could be causing problems with string tension, and not being able to get it in tune. Could be a bad neck angle, could be the bridge, could be the nut, maybe the saddles, maybe the intonation, maybe even the string itself. If you just take it to a tech and tell him to do a full setup, that will include all of that stuff. And unless there's actually something broken or a part that needs to be replaced, it shouldn't cost more than like $30-$40. Maybe even less.
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:39 PM   #8
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Sounds like intonation to me.. You have a saddle out of whack..
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Old 09-28-2014, 10:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathmoniC
My high e needs to be very loose to be tuned to e or very tight (kinda not possible)
It gives 260 hz i


If you've got something that can give you frequencies, you need to have your high E at E4 or 329.6 Hz. Start at the bottom strings and make sure they're accurately in tune first.

Guitar strings are:

E2=82.41Hz,
A2=110Hz,
D3=146.8Hz,
G3=196Hz,
B3=246.9Hz,
E4=329.6Hz

Intonation has nothing whatever to do with getting the full-length string in tune.

Last edited by dspellman : 09-28-2014 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 09-28-2014, 10:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dspellman
Intonation has nothing whatever to do with getting the full-length string in tune.

To emphasize, since apparently you didn't notice before...if the saddle is too far back, then he won't be able to tune it to E4. Moving the saddle adjusts intonation. So...it kind of does have to do with tuning.
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Old 09-28-2014, 10:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
To emphasize, since apparently you didn't notice before...if the saddle is too far back, then he won't be able to tune it to E4. Moving the saddle adjusts intonation. So...it kind of does have to do with tuning.


Uhhh... no? Intonation affects the pitch of fretted notes relative to the open string.
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Old 09-28-2014, 10:49 PM   #12
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I can't see any reason an open string of the right gauge won't tune to the correct pitch/tension, not the nut, intonation, neck angle or anything else mentioned.
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Old 09-28-2014, 11:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
To emphasize, since apparently you didn't notice before...if the saddle is too far back, then he won't be able to tune it to E4. Moving the saddle adjusts intonation. So...it kind of does have to do with tuning.


No.

If you have a 24.75" scale, you can tune a .009 string to E4 whether there are frets or not. You can put the same gauge string on a 25.5" scale guitar and tune that string to E4 (that's the equivalent of moving a saddle .75", isn't it?). And you can put that same gauge string on a 27" scale guitar and tune that string to E4. In fact, if you do that with a fretless guitar or a steel (slide) guitar, intonation isn't even a factor and you're done with the tuning process. It's only if you have frets that you need to...uh...fret over intonation.

Last edited by dspellman : 09-28-2014 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 09-28-2014, 11:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathmoniC
My high e needs to be very loose to be tuned to e or very tight (kinda not possible)


We probably should have asked this before -- what kind of guitar are you using?
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Old 09-29-2014, 01:21 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dspellman
No.

If you have a 24.75" scale, you can tune a .009 string to E4 whether there are frets or not. You can put the same gauge string on a 25.5" scale guitar and tune that string to E4 (that's the equivalent of moving a saddle .75", isn't it?). And you can put that same gauge string on a 27" scale guitar and tune that string to E4. In fact, if you do that with a fretless guitar or a steel (slide) guitar, intonation isn't even a factor and you're done with the tuning process. It's only if you have frets that you need to...uh...fret over intonation.

Wow, it's like you're not even understanding me. It's not complex, dude. If you move the saddle back too far, you can't tune it properly. Ugh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Uhhh... no? Intonation affects the pitch of fretted notes relative to the open string.

If the saddle is far enough back that the open string isn't in tune, the intonation is off severely. This sounds like what TS's issue is.

Edit:
It's not fucking rocket science, guys. Quit trying to sound smart.
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Last edited by crazysam23_Atax : 09-29-2014 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 09-29-2014, 02:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
Wow, it's like you're not even understanding me. It's not complex, dude. If you move the saddle back too far, you can't tune it properly. Ugh.


If the saddle is far enough back that the open string isn't in tune, the intonation is off severely. This sounds like what TS's issue is.

Edit:
It's not fucking rocket science, guys. Quit trying to sound smart.


I have no idea what you're on about, but you're correct about this not being rocket science.

You can take a guitar OR a piano string or a violin string, etc. String it between two points, put it under tension and it will vibrate at a certain frequency that corresponds to a note.

The TS's issue is that he believes that tuning his string to an E4 will snap it.

Intonation has absolutely nothing to do with anything until he gets the string under proper tension and tuned to the right frequency.
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Old 09-29-2014, 03:38 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
Wow, it's like you're not even understanding me. It's not complex, dude. If you move the saddle back too far, you can't tune it properly. Ugh.


If the saddle is far enough back that the open string isn't in tune, the intonation is off severely. This sounds like what TS's issue is.

Edit:
It's not fucking rocket science, guys. Quit trying to sound smart.


I think what's going on here is that you, Sam, are saying "intonation is off" to refer to the saddle being out of whack, while dSpell is making the distinction that bad intonation is a symptom of that problem (saddle being off), but is not the problem itself. If the saddle is so far off that the string can't even get into tune played open, then yeah, that's a problem, but it's beyond intonation. Bad intonation, in and of itself, can't keep an open string from getting in tune, because intonation is only an issue when comparing the open note to fretted notes.
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Old 09-29-2014, 09:09 AM   #18
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It doesn't matter. The saddle can't possibly be so far back that you can't tune the string. How much adjustment room do you think there is? The saddle would have to be several inches off the bridge for this to happen. To call this an intonation issue is absurd. If your car won't start you wouldn't say it's because the steering wheel is adjusted too high.

This is clearly another issue. Intonation makes no sense here.

We'll need more information to speculate more, but sometimes the ball of a string binds in a trem block and that can do weird things to string tension.
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Old 09-29-2014, 09:22 AM   #19
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sam you make no sense. quit trying to sound smart
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