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Old 10-08-2012, 04:25 PM   #61481
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Originally Posted by ErikLensherr
Hugo Chavez won re-election to another 6 year term and that's p cool.


Sarcasm I hope. Fuk Hugo Chaves..
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:28 PM   #61482
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Based on what I read the election was conducted fairly and democratically. I was reading reports throughout the day of people that went to observe who seemed thrilled at how fairly and smoothly the elections ran. Nor did I hear any complaints from the opposition that any corruption or collusion had taken place.

Whether you like Chavez or not, democratic elections in countries where corruption could be prevalent is something to be admired.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:58 PM   #61483
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I just like him because his entire existence is two fingers up at America.
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:20 PM   #61484
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Based on what I read the election was conducted fairly and democratically. I was reading reports throughout the day of people that went to observe who seemed thrilled at how fairly and smoothly the elections ran. Nor did I hear any complaints from the opposition that any corruption or collusion had taken place.

Whether you like Chavez or not, democratic elections in countries where corruption could be prevalent is something to be admired.


Yeah, I mean it's so hard to find any sort of objective reporting on Venezuela, so I dunno where I stand on the guy, but there seems very little doubt on the elections' validity. By the standards of that part of the world (*points at avatar*), that's pretty impressive.

Indeed, by the standards of most of the world *ahem*Florida 2000*ahem*
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:42 PM   #61485
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Sarcasm I hope. Fuk Hugo Chaves..

Nope I love the guy. After what the opposition tried to do in 2002 this is poetic justice. They really thought they were close this time.
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:10 PM   #61486
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dude that's low

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Yeah, I mean it's so hard to find any sort of objective reporting on Venezuela, so I dunno where I stand on the guy,


+1, there's your problem. I don't like how the entire west tries to paint him as more or less evil ("how awful, the really poor local people vote in their best interests instead of the interests of the west!"), but I don't much trust lefty lionising of him, either. I guess the one thing to take from it is that if you give people a pretty shitty choice you can't be too surprised if they pick a dodgy option. Frequently happens all over the world, not just venezuela.
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:25 PM   #61487
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What do you guys think about the view that ofsted should do no-notice inspections to get an accurate snapshot of a school rather than giving schools time to prepare?

One of my classes decided to angrily debate this because they said I didn't normally do learning outcomes as well as objectives (I was furious, I pulled up old planning to show them that isn't true) but I certainly wish they hadn't had this debate when inspectors were lurking ready to enter the class at any second
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:28 PM   #61488
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What do you guys think about the view that ofsted should do no-notice inspections to get an accurate snapshot of a school rather than giving schools time to prepare?

One of my classes decided to angrily debate this because they said I didn't normally do learning outcomes as well as objectives (I was furious, I pulled up old planning to show them that isn't true) but I certainly wish they hadn't had this debate when inspectors were lurking ready to enter the class at any second

I think that they fairly obviously should be no notice inspections. The worst teachers in the world can pull it together for the day, I've seen them do it, there is no accuracy or fairness when schools are given time to prepare. My own old school used to run like a completely different place when inspections were coming up.

In my hotel I don't get a notice from the Health Board when they're coming to do food inspections, nor do I get notice of fire safety inspections. If I did get notice then I'd have everything fine, for that day, and immediately go back to letting the rats live in the store and leaving barricades in front of fire exits.
I do, on the other hand, get notice of TAMS inspections (the inspections given that determine our Star Rating) and they're a joke as a result. We have flowers on all the tables, we have a large selection of newspapers and magazines (purchased that morning), the rooms the TAMs inspector stays in is cleaned and checked multiple times, and rooms with serious structural issues are locked up.

Inspections should be adversarial, at least to some extent.
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:34 PM   #61489
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Originally Posted by Mistress_Ibanez
What do you guys think about the view that ofsted should do no-notice inspections to get an accurate snapshot of a school rather than giving schools time to prepare?

One of my classes decided to angrily debate this because they said I didn't normally do learning outcomes as well as objectives (I was furious, I pulled up old planning to show them that isn't true) but I certainly wish they hadn't had this debate when inspectors were lurking ready to enter the class at any second


that's a dick move by your class, but at the same time i agree with paddy

that being said, even knowing the inspector's in the room will make a teacher make a better effort, presumably. Really you'd need to (somehow, without massively violating everyone's privacy, which is probably infeasible) have inspections where the teachers and pupils didn't know they were being inspected.
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:55 PM   #61490
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Some schools have studnet panels where students give feedback on their lessons, but that's horrendously biased because if a kid just doesn't like a teacher they can lie, and it's quite hard to train children what to look for in teaching and learning. Although saying that, it's hard to train adults too.

Oh and you think that's bad behaviour? My kids were all awful for the inspector on purpose for laughs. It was mentioned in the inspector's feedback how poor their behaviour was and I completely flipped out on them the following lesson. The whole "you let the school down, you let me down, but MOST OF ALL YOU LET YOURSELVES DOWN" thing



I don't know if I do agree with Paddy though. In schools, not ALL lessons can have progress being made. Sometimes mine do a test. Sometimes we have like 5 chapters to read and we just spend the whole lesson reading. Those lessons would both be inadequate if ofsted watched them, but the children are still learning things. They want to see learning happen every 20 minutes, and sometimes the learning is more embedded than that. They don't care, that's why it's so hard.
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:06 PM   #61491
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Some schools have studnet panels.

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Old 10-10-2012, 06:50 PM   #61492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistress_Ibanez
(a) Some schools have studnet panels where students give feedback on their lessons, but that's horrendously biased because if a kid just doesn't like a teacher they can lie, and it's quite hard to train children what to look for in teaching and learning. Although saying that, it's hard to train adults too.

(b) Oh and you think that's bad behaviour? My kids were all awful for the inspector on purpose for laughs. It was mentioned in the inspector's feedback how poor their behaviour was and I completely flipped out on them the following lesson. (c) The whole "you let the school down, you let me down, but MOST OF ALL YOU LET YOURSELVES DOWN" thing



(d) I don't know if I do agree with Paddy though. In schools, not ALL lessons can have progress being made. Sometimes mine do a test. Sometimes we have like 5 chapters to read and we just spend the whole lesson reading. Those lessons would both be inadequate if ofsted watched them, but the children are still learning things. They want to see learning happen every 20 minutes, and sometimes the learning is more embedded than that. They don't care, that's why it's so hard.


(a) yeah that's a problem, of course. Or they complain about stupid things (not school, but i remember they handed out those forms at uni too, and we had one lecturer who was spanish, and apparently almost everyone was writing that they couldn't understand him- I could understand him perfectly ).

the other big problem about those student bodies is that the louder students tend to make their thoughts known while the quieter ones sit at the back and are left out. The person shouting loudest doesn't always have the best point (frankly i'd say more often than not it's the opposite).

(b) that's messed up. normally we tried hard to behave when we were having an inspection.

(c) ahahaha

obviously you're the teacher, and you know best what works, but is that the best tack to take? I never thought there was much sense in saying stuff that the students knew wasn't true (how have they let themselves down? ) because it just made them not believe anything the teacher said. and got the backs up of those who were behaving, too.

(d) oh yeah, of course. I mean i guess any time you were having a test you wouldn't have an inspection.

though then you're kinda into that "you're going to be executed unexpectedly/you'll have a surprise test next week" paradox

as i said before, though, i'm well aware inspections are a blunt instrument at best- I'm sure i've said this before, but my dad was marked down for not actually making the pancakes in a lesson where they were learning about food in french.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:35 AM   #61493
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I don't know if I do agree with Paddy though. In schools, not ALL lessons can have progress being made. Sometimes mine do a test. Sometimes we have like 5 chapters to read and we just spend the whole lesson reading. Those lessons would both be inadequate if ofsted watched them, but the children are still learning things. They want to see learning happen every 20 minutes, and sometimes the learning is more embedded than that. They don't care, that's why it's so hard.

I think that such a distinction should be relatively easy for a competent inspector to make to be honest. I'm making a flawed assumption I suppose that the government wouldn't have complete morons doing the inspecting.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:55 AM   #61494
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Originally Posted by Ur all $h1t
I think that they fairly obviously should be no notice inspections. The worst teachers in the world can pull it together for the day, I've seen them do it, there is no accuracy or fairness when schools are given time to prepare. My own old school used to run like a completely different place when inspections were coming up.

In my hotel I don't get a notice from the Health Board when they're coming to do food inspections, nor do I get notice of fire safety inspections. If I did get notice then I'd have everything fine, for that day, and immediately go back to letting the rats live in the store and leaving barricades in front of fire exits.
I do, on the other hand, get notice of TAMS inspections (the inspections given that determine our Star Rating) and they're a joke as a result. We have flowers on all the tables, we have a large selection of newspapers and magazines (purchased that morning), the rooms the TAMs inspector stays in is cleaned and checked multiple times, and rooms with serious structural issues are locked up.

Inspections should be adversarial, at least to some extent.

I agree that their should be no-notice inspections; though they should possibly be looking at slightly different things than the 'regular' inspections, or maybe just look at them in a different way. It's a difficult thing to have to figure out, though. I mean, I went to what would have been considered(and still would be, though it has slipped in the league tables a little since my day - though this could be attributed to another school improving, or the recent change in catchment areas) a very good school, and there was a distinctly different atmosphere during, and in the lead-up to, inspections.
Certainly the headmaster would be more visible around the school in the week before an inspection, as would the department heads.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:27 AM   #61495
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I think that such a distinction should be relatively easy for a competent inspector to make to be honest. I'm making a flawed assumption I suppose that the government wouldn't have complete morons doing the inspecting.


hmmm

also it might not even be that- there might be incentives etc. to find fault and make a name for yourself. also give some people power and they'll struggle not to exercise it.

I guess... one thing that might help is that inspectors have to have been teachers (for a minimum amount of time- say, 10 years), and they have to go back to teaching after a short while inspecting (say, a year).
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:43 AM   #61496
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Originally Posted by Mistress_Ibanez
I don't know if I do agree with Paddy though. In schools, not ALL lessons can have progress being made. Sometimes mine do a test. Sometimes we have like 5 chapters to read and we just spend the whole lesson reading. Those lessons would both be inadequate if ofsted watched them, but the children are still learning things. They want to see learning happen every 20 minutes, and sometimes the learning is more embedded than that. They don't care, that's why it's so hard.


I completely agree with this, and there's no way that a single audit of a class can adequately determine the quality of instruction. It's simply not possible, it's merely a snapshot, frozen in time, of what was happening at that particular instant.

I consult at a 'for profit' technical institute, and it was purpose-built with audit rooms with audio and one way glass access to every classroom. Neither the instructors nor the students know when an auditor is actually there, but the standard is that at a minimum 10% of their instructional time will be audited. The results thus far are compelling...
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:44 AM   #61497
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Announced prearranged preplanned inspections are useless.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:29 PM   #61498
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Announced prearranged preplanned inspections are useless.

Not entirely useless; for structural stuff they do have a use. Like in my example above, we have TAMS inspections every year, and they announce when they are coming. The announcement comes with a checklist of shit we have to have done. Lots of that however, is structural, stuff like having a leisure centre or a certain amount of rooms, shit that can't be easily changed, and if it is changed then that's just a gain anyway.

For instance, we risked losing a star a while back because the feckin' decor in the bar hadn't been updated for ages, neither had the menu or the wine lists; I had to fix that shit before the TAMS person came, and because she was coming, but because they're essentially structural they remained fixed afterwards.

Solely planned announced inspections are useless though, what you need are a combination of both, and many inspections over the year really.
What can't happen though, is that inspections become the main vehicle for assessment, they're just a component.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:49 PM   #61499
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yeah- i wouldn't say they're completely useless. But you do need the unannounced ones, too.

what you should have done was hire some new paint and wallpaper and carpets for the inspection, and then sent it all back when the inspection was done.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:50 PM   #61500
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